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Monday, October 1, 2012

107: SHAPING THE FUTURE OF THE CHURCH

As some people are already aware, Elder Russell M Nelson reported that President Monson recieved a revelation that will be announced in General Conference this weekend.  This information was written on a  LDS Public Affair missionary's blog serving in Europe. (So take it with a grain of salt). This is what was written.
  • "Yesterday the Area Office was reviewed by Elder Russell M. Nelson. He met with the Area Seventy, Elder Teixeira and his counselors, whose offices are upstairs. 88 year-old Elder Nelson meet briefly with us Senior Missionaries next door at the stake center chapel before heading off to Milan for meetings and then to London to visit with the temple president before heading home from a 12 day trip across Europe. He told us that revelation is alive and well in the Church and that we should listen closely in our upcoming general conference as last Thursday President Monson received revelation that will "shape the future of the Church."
 
There has been much speculation on the Internet on what Monson's revelation is....could it be a two hour block instead of 3 hours for church?.. or civil marriages will now be performed outside of the Temple and only sealings performed inside the Temple?, or could it be as simple as announcing a new church wide curriculum change for the youth that has been in a pilot program. We will all know soon enough.
 
If the revelation is the youth curriculum change I mentioned above, this revelatory program was recently announced to the locals Bishops via a letter sent out by the First Presidency dated September 12, 2012.
 
The letter begins by saying, "We are pleased to announce a new curriculum for the Young Men and Young Women, and for youth Sunday School classes."
 
Some of the excerpts from the letter are as follows:
 
  • "The new curriculum integrates basic gospel doctrines"...
  • .
  • "The focus is on strengthening and building faith, conversion, and testimony, using the most current teachings of the General Authorities and General Auxiliary Presidencies." (emphasis mine)
 
I found some of the words very interesting in this letter. The word 'integrates' means to form, coordinate, or blend... The definition of "integrate" is not that different from the word 'mingle' which means to bring or mix together.
 
Also the curriculum will be using the "most current teachings of the General Authorities".
 
So in a nutshell, the new curriculum for our youth will be "using the teachings of our General Authorites integrating basic gospel doctrines...."
 
Reminds me of another phrase I hear often.
.

60 comments:

  1. Yea, the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. Or to use a scriptural definition from the Book of Isaiah, who does not hold back in his use of imagery:

    Isaiah 28:
    7 ¶But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
    8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

    Good post as always. Keep up the great work.

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  2. Yes, I am very concerned about this--

    I have a special needs 'child' who loves Jesus and the scriptures and easily confuses the sort of admiration that the church culture encourages regarding general authorities with the reverence that is felt for Jesus--

    so I am quite concerned about this, and I realize that I will need to work even harder with my 'child' to make certain that he/she knows the difference--

    I hadn't realized how much emphasis had been put on the picture(s) of some of the general authorities until a Friend arrived and our 'child' cried out in delight, "Thomas S. Monson!"--

    I realized I had been asleep--

    and I used it as an opportunity to talk about how President Monson is the president of *our* church, but he's a grandpa with children and grandchildren--

    he has special keys and responsibilities, but he's not Heavenly Father or Jesus--

    and . . . we need to remember that--

    not sure it did any good, but I'm keeping a closer eye on things now--

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  3. Not sure what the announcement will be. I have a feeling I'll be underwhelmed, as usual.

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  4. I wonder if this "revelation" will actually be more like a policy change? Sometimes we tend to confuse the two... you know, having a two-hour block... is that really revelation? Changing a manual because the old ones sucked eggs... is that really a revelation? Or just someone finally pulling their head out of the sand?

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  5. I think the hype is overwhelming my hope. I'll be anxious to see what is meant by "alive and well."

    Speaking of hype... Did you see that they are actually giving previews to the upcoming talks? Don't believe me? Go to www.genconpreview.WordPress.com and see for yourselves.

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    1. Good work anon I wasn't aware of that site.

      In case we weren't already bored during conference, now we can be bored reading the preview and then be double bored during actual delivery. :) I'm meaning this in a fun way.

      I like where they were heading. The idea of giving the members something to use as preparation for their talks. I think that is a fantastic idea. Get people to study first, so they are prepared to hear something full of doctrine and substance. However just giving us watered down talks in advanced isn't quite...well...it's...you get the idea.

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    2. I'm happy to say I wasn't bored at this conference. Not sure if it was me, them or a combination of both. But I wasn't bored, I was quite at attention in face. It was enjoyable.

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  6. Yes, the Church seems to be getting farther and farther away from the age old law (which ancient and modern prophets have repeatedly taught) that the scriptures always trump living prophets.

    The philosophies of men are not only being 'mingled' with scriptures they are now said to 'trump' scripture. A sure recipe for disaster.

    For the way you tell a true prophet from a false one or any truth from error is by judging it or them against what the scriptures say.

    No one, not even the Prophet can change doctrine or teach anything that is contrary to the scriptures, especially the BoM and the 'original' D&C that Joseph Smith gave us, which most people have never read.

    The eternal truth is that if anyone's revelations or teachings are contrary to the scriptures then they prove themselves wrong and we should not listen to them.

    And almost all modern prophets and leaders of the Church have taught contrary to the scriptures, but sadly most everyone has fallen for their falsehoods, for proving all things takes too much time and effort.

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  7. I hope the new change will be a return to the way Joseph Smith commanded that marriage should be done, which is the only righteous and correct way to be married, 'publicly', among all your family and friends, 'standing together' and giving yourself to each other 'equally', not the woman only giving herself to the man.

    Brigham Young changed all this and cast the marriage scripture out of D&C, among many other eternal truths that Joseph taught which BY got rid of after JS died, because such truths were too inconvenient for BY, like monogamy.

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  8. can someone tell *us* where to find the original Book of Commandments, before Brigham doctored it?

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  9. Six of the original Twelve Apostles selected by Joseph Smith were excommunicated. The Three Witnesses to the Book of Mormon left the Church. Three of Joseph Smith’s counselors fell--one even helped plot his death. A natural question that might arise would be that if the Lord knew in advance that these men would fall, as He undoubtedly did, why did He have His prophet call them to such high office? The answer is: to fill the Lord’s purposes. For even the Master followed the will of the Father by selecting Judas. President George Q. Cannon suggested an explanation, too, when he stated, (Millennial Star 53:658, 1891) And this would parallel Nephi’s warning, put not your “trust in the arm of flesh.” (2 Nephi 4:34) (An Enemy Hath Done This, Pg. 290, See also Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, Pg.89)

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  10. Certain individuals within the Church may go astray and even fall away. This may happen even to a person in the Church who is in a position of some influence and authority. It has happened in the past. It will happen in the future. If our faith is in Jesus Christ and not in the arm of flesh, then we will know that we are members of the Church of Jesus Christ and not the church of men. (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, Pg. 90)

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  11. But as you cannot always judge the righteous, or as you cannot always tell the wicked from the righteous, therefore I say unto you, hold your peace until I shall see fit to make all things known unto the world concerning the matter.
    (D&C 10:37)

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  12. No matter whether we are Jew or Gentile, as the two classes of people are called; though Gentile signifies disobedient people; no matter whether we believe in the Koran as firmly as we now believe in the Bible; no matter whether we have been educated by the Jews, the Gentiles, or the Hottentots; whether we serve the true and the living God, or a lifeless image, if we are honest before the God we serve.

    Brother George Q. Cannon brought me a god from the Sandwich Islands, made out of a piece of wood. If all the people bow down to such a god as that, it is in accordance with their laws and ordinances, and their manner of dealing among themselves; the Lord permits them to do as they please with regard to that matter, and this illustration will apply to all the nations upon the face of the earth. People who fall down beneath the wheels of Juggernaut, and are crushed to death; who sacrifice their children in the worship of idols; if they act according to the best of their knowledge, there is a chance for their salvation, as much as there is for the salvation of any other person.

    “Do you suppose the Hindoos have the light of the Spirit of Christ?” I know they have; and so have the Hottentots, and so has every nation and kingdom upon the face of the earth, even though some of them may be cannibals, indulging in a practice the most repugnant to our refined feelings of any we know of among any people; yet that is a practice which the religious, refined, and polished inhabitants of our lovely country shudder at. But let me place any member of this congregation, or the whole of them, in such a state of suffering, from year to year, that they shall never see one day or one hour’s comfort, nor satisfaction of human life; when compared with a condition of that kind, the sin of killing and eating a human being would not be as great as many sins committed by the so-called Christian nations.

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    1. CONTINUED

      Can I refer your minds to circumstances of this kind among the people of our lovely country? Yes, brethren and sisters, ladies and gentlemen, scores of them. When a man has power over his neighbour, over his fellow-being, and puts him in torment, which is like the flames of everlasting fire, so that he never dares to speak his mind, or walk across the street, or attend to any branch of business, without a continual fear of his oppressor, and of the rod hanging over him for punishment, it is worse than to kill and eat him. That is as the torment of hell, do you know it? Now do not be scared when you hear of the heathen engaging in loathsome practices, for I defy you to bring up meaner or more degraded set than now exists among the so-called civilized nations of the earth.

      When I heard brother George Q. Cannon speak about the traditions of the people where he has been, I thought that some of their traditions were no worse than some of ours. They believe that no one is better capable of teaching the inhabitants of the earth than they; and I defy them to believe that stronger than we believe it of ourselves. It is what we have been taught, and what we verily believe; they have been taught the same idea,and believe it with all their hearts;then don’t cast them down to hell for their honest belief.

      But when the light of the knowledge of God comes to a man and he rejects it, that it is his condemnation. When I have told all I have been authorized to declare to him in the name of the Lord, if he does not have the visions of eternity, it is all nonsense to him. To know the truth of my testimony he must have the visions and revelations of God for himself. And when he gets them, and turns aside, becoming a traitor to the cause of righteousness, the wrath of God will beat up on him, and the vengeance of the Almighty will be heavy upon him. This comes, not because their fathers lived in darkness before them, and the ancestors of their fathers before them; not because the nations have lived and died in ignorance; but because the Lord pours the spirit of revelation upon them, and they reject it. Then they are prepared for the wrath of God, and they are banished to another part of the spirit world, where the devil has power and control over them. (Journal of Discourses,Vol.2, pp. 139-140)

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  13. We all occupy diversified stations in the world, and in the kingdom of God. Those who do right, and seek the glory of the Father in heaven, whether their knowledge be little or much, or whether they can do little or much, if they do the very best they know how, they are perfect...”Be ye as perfect as ye can,” for that is all we can do, tho’ it is written, “Be ye perfect as your Father who is in heaven is perfect.” To be as perfect as we possibly can according to our knowledge, is to be just as perfect as our Father in heaven is. He cannot be any more perfect than he knows how, any more than we. The sin that will cleave to all the posterity of Adam and Eve is, that they have not done as well as they know how. (Deseret News Weekly, August 31, 1954, p. 37 See also “Choose you This Day,” priesthood manual, p. 183)

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  14. If the Church knew all the commandments, one-half they would condemn through prejudice and ignorance.

    (TPJS Pg. 111)

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  15. Yea, verily I say unto you, in that day when the Lord shall come, he shall reveal all things--

    Things which have passed, and hidden things which no man knew, things of the earth, by which it was made, and the purpose and the end thereof--

    Things most precious, things that are above, and things that are beneath, things that are in the earth, and upon the earth, and in heaven.

    (D&C 101:32-34)

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  16. And again, I will give unto you a pattern in all things, that ye may not be deceived;for Satan is abroad in the land, and he goeth forth deceiving the nations--

    Wherefore he that prayeth, whose spirit is contrite, the same is accepted of me if he obey mine ordinances.

    He that speaketh, whose spirit is contrite, whose language is meek and edifieth, the same is of God if he obey mine ordinances.

    (D&C 52:14-16)

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  17. ...Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

    (Luke 16:15)

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  18. Many men will say, “I will never forsake you, but will stand by you at all times.” But the moment you teach them some of the mysteries of the kingdom of God that are retained in the heavens and are to be revealed to the children of men when they are prepared for them, they will be the first to stone you and put you to death. It was this same principle that crucified the Lord Jesus Christ, and will cause the people to kill the prophets in this generation. (History of the Church 5:424)


    I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions: they cannot stand the fire at all. How many will be able to abide a celestial law, and go through and receive their exaltation, I am unable to say, as many are called, but few are chosen. (TPJS Pg.331)

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  19. Flattery is food for the silly and shallow brained, but a wise heart and pure hand will never administer it.
    (Journal of Discourses 4:258)

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  20. And now I ask, can ye say aught of yourselves? I answer you nay. Ye cannot say that ye are even as much as the dust of the earth; but behold, it belongeth to him who created you. (Mosiah 2:25)


    For behold, if the knowledge of the goodness of God at this time has awakened you to a sense of your nothingness, and your worthless and fallen state

    I say unto you, if ye have come to a knowledge of the goodness of God, and his matchless power, and his wisdom, and his patience, and his long-suffering towards the children of men; and also, the atonement...

    I say, that this is the man who receiveth salvation, through the atonement... (Mosiah 4:5-7)

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  21. For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good.

    And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well -- and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.

    And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none -- and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance.

    Yea, they are grasped with death, and hell; and death, and hell, and the devil, and all that have been seized therewith must stand before the throne of God, and be judged according to their works, from whence they must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment.

    Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!

    Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!

    Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!

    Yea, wo be unto him that saith: We have received, and we need no more!

    And in fine, wo unto all those who tremble, and are angry because of the truth of God! For behold, he that is built upon the rock receiveth it with gladness; and he that is built upon a sandy foundation trembleth lest he shall fall.

    Wo be unto him that shall say: We have received the word of God, and we need no more of the word of God, for we have enough!

    For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.

    (2 Nephi 28:20-31)

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    1. If the Church knew all the commandments, one-half they would condemn through prejudice and ignorance.

      (TPJS Pg. 111)

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  22. Elder Orson Pratt once said:
    What kind of a revolution would it work among the Latter-day Saints if the revelation given in March, 1831, were carried out by them “It is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin?” How much of a revolution would it accomplish in Salt Lake City if this order of things should be brought about? I think it would work a greater revolution among this people than has ever been witnessed amongst them since they had an existence as a Church.
    (Journal of Discourses 15:355-356)




    Orson Pratt has also said:
    There must be a reformation. There will be a reformation among this people, but He will plead with the stronger ones of Zion, He will plead with this people, He will plead with those in high places, He will plead with the priesthood of this church, until Zion shall become clean before him. I do not know but what it would be an utter impossibility to commence and carry out some principles pertaining to Zion right in the midst of this people. They have strayed so far that to get a people who would conform to heavenly laws it may be needful to lead some from the midst of this people and commence anew in the regions round about in these mountains.
    (Journal of Discourses 15:360)

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  23. He [Moroni] realizes that the record will be a voice of warning to future generations of what occurs when nations like his own turn away from the teachings of the Lord. It is from the depths of his heart that Moroni cries out to those who will eventually receive the record. He wants to spare those who read his account the heartache and misery which comes from disobedience.

    He writes first to the members of the church and then to those who have not embraced the gospel of Jesus Christ. Moroni’s last words to the members of the church are written as a voice of warning. He writes as one who sees the history of his people repeating itself in the future. From the Book of Mormon we read:

    “Behold, the Lord hath shown unto me great and marvelous things concerning that which must shortly come, at that day when these things shall come forth among you.

    “Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing.

    “And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.

    “For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.

    “O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies--because of the praise of the world?”
    (Mormon 8:34-38)

    I guess one of the greatest mysteries of mortality is why mankind fails to learn from history. Why do those who profess to be true followers of Christ so often become victims of the enticements of the world? The evidence is so strong regarding the blessings which accrue to those who trust in and follow the ways the Lord has prescribed for us.

    (Conference Report, Ensign, November, 1992)

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  24. Moroni was similarly explicit in predicting false teachings among the Saints. Reflect upon the unmistakable implications of this point-blank indictment of members of the “holy church of God:”

    “O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God?” (Mormon 8:38)

    Since there is only one “holy church of God” on earth, and since it is being polluted, the blame therefore appears to rest upon the teachers and hypocrites within that church.

    (The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil, pp. 170-171)

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  25. And in that day shall be heard of wars and rumors of wars, and the whole earth shall be in commotion, and men’s hearts shall fail them, and they shall say that Christ delayeth his coming until the end of the earth.

    And the love of men shall wax cold, and iniquity shall abound.

    And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fullness of my gospel;

    But they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

    And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


    And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.

    But my disciples shall stand in holy places, and shall not be moved; but among the wicked, men shall lift up their voices and curse God and die.

    And there shall be earthquakes also in divers places, and many desolations; yet men will harden their hearts against me, and they will take up the sword, one against another, and they will kill one another.

    (D&C 45:26-33)

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  26. And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fullness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fullness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fullness of my gospel from among them.

    And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.

    And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fullness of my gospel.

    (3 Nephi 16:10-12)

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  27. But if they [the Gentiles] will not turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, I will suffer them, yea, I will suffer my people, O house of Israel, that they shall go through among them, and shall tread them down, and they shall be as salt that hath lost its savor, which is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of my people, O house of Israel.

    (3 Nephi 16:15)

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  28. When men are called into mine everlasting gospel, and covenant with an everlasting covenant, they are accounted as the salt of the earth and the savor of men;

    They are called to be the savor of men; therefore, if that salt of the earth lose its savor,behold, it is thenceforth good for nothing only to be cast out and trodden under the feet of men.

    (D&C 101:39-40)

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  29. Elder Orson Pratt has said:

    What says the Book of Mormon in relation to the building up of the New Jerusalem on this continent--one of the most splendid cities that ever was or ever will be built on this land? Does not that book say that the Lamanites are to be the principal operators in that important work, and that those who embrace the Gospel from among the Gentiles are to have the privilege of assisting the Lamanites to build up the city called the New Jerusalem? This remnant of Joseph, who are now degraded, will then be filled with the wisdom of God; and by that wisdom they will build that city; by the aid of the Priesthood already given, and by the aid of Prophets that God will raise up in their midst, they will beautify and ornament its dwellings; and we have the privilege of being numbered with them, instead of their being numbered with us. It is a great privilege indeed (and we are indebted to their fathers for it,) that we enjoy of being associated with them in the accomplishment of so great a work.

    (Journal of Discourses 9:178)

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  30. For behold, the Lord hath said: I will not succor my people in the day of their transgression; but I will hedge up their ways that they prosper not; and their doings shall be as a stumbling block before them.

    And again, he saith: If my people shall sow filthiness they shall reap the chaff thereof in the whirlwind; and the effect thereof is poison.

    And again he saith: If my people shall sow filthiness they shall reap the east wind, which bringeth immediate destruction.

    (Mosiah 7:29-31)

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  31. Wherefore, all those who are proud, and that do wickedly, the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of Hosts, for they shall be as stubble.

    And they that kill the prophets, and the saints, the depths of the earth shall swallow them up, saith the Lord of Hosts; and mountains shall cover them, and whirlwinds shall carry them away, and buildings shall fall upon them and crush them to pieces and grind them to powder.

    And they shall be visited with thunderings, and lightnings, and earthquakes, and all manner of destructions, for the fire of the anger of the Lord shall be kindled against them, and they shall be as stubble, and the day that cometh shall consume them, saith the Lord of Hosts.

    (2 Nephi 26:4-6)

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  32. And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations;

    (D&C 87:6)

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  33. Too often we bask in our comfortable complacency and rationalize that the ravages of war, economic disaster, famine, and earthquake cannot happen here. Those who believe this are either not acquainted with the revelations of the Lord, or they do not believe them. Those who smugly think these calamities will not happen, that they somehow will be set aside because of the righteousness of the Saints, are deceived and will rue the day they harbored such a delusion. The Lord has warned and forewarned us against a day of great tribulation and given us counsel, through His servants, on how we can be prepared for these difficult times. Have we heeded His counsel?

    (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson,Pg.706)

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  34. Should the Lord decide at this time to cleanse the Church--and the need for that cleansing seems to be increasing--a famine in this land of one year’s duration could wipe out a large percentage of slothful members, including some ward and stake officers. Yet we cannot say we have not been warned.

    (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, Pg.265)

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  35. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

    (Hosea 4:6)

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  36. Which portion of the prophecies will I help to fulfill?

    Will I be one of the few who remain true to the Lord and his doctrines, in spite of whatever difficulties may arise?

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  37. There are something like 28 comments from what appears to be the same anon author. (I could be wrong but they all have the same style, formatting, and tone).

    I think one or two well thought out and directly related ideas are going to be better than someone's personal pile of comments that are now like 28 deep.

    Just a thought from an interested reader. No intention here of offending anyone. Those comments may be valuable at the right time and in the right way, but as they stand they are distracting and hard to follow.

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    1. Thank you John, I agree. Since I have made it a point to not delete any of the comments, and let others share their opinion whether I agree or not, I am not sure if it is best to hide some of these random quotes. I appreciate all the comments that have been made, they have been very interesting and have added to the post.

      Delete
    2. I personally enjoyed all the quotes, and I am grateful they are all in one place. Also, it shows that an important message can be found in many sources. Thank you, Unknown, for not hiding any of them.

      Delete
    3. Yes, they are hard to follow - and I didn't read all of them - but I was glad they were there because of the information that was in them if I (for example) ever printed this out (easier to read hardcopy).

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    4. Can someone tell me where I can buy an original Book of Commandments--

      before Brigham altered section 109, etc.--

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    5. Anonymous, have you tried online?

      Here's one link: http://www.xristian.org/ft/mormboctext.pdf

      I thought I had seen another, but that was on a different computer (it crashed and is forever gone). This link above looks bona fide. An online search may yield further results.

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    6. The link I had before was not anti-Mormon, but I cannot find it. The link I posted above is not friendly to LDS. They posted the book in an effort to discredit the church. I would prefer a friendly site. If I find it, I'll post the link.

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    7. Okay, I've found one of the links that I once had. It compares the differences between the two books and doesn't seem to spout anti rhetoric.

      http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/boc/boc_main.shtml

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    8. Thank you, Toni--

      I've already begun to look at that site--
      :)

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  38. To Anon 10:55, (PART 1)

    I am the one who mentioned that most members have not read the original D&C that Joseph left us, before it was changed by Brigham Young. (But I am 'not' the Anon who listed all those quotes)

    While there are many sites that discuss the changes, including wikipedia, (just google wikipedia and doctrine and covenants), the site I recommend is restorationbookstore.org. I recommend reading their free online book called "Joseph Smith Fought Polygamy".

    In that book they talk about the true historical proven and published facts and teachings about and from Joseph Smith and his preaching against polygamy, including discussion about the many sections of the D&C that Brigham Young changed or deleted and the one's he put in their place, (despite the fact that not even prophets can receive contrary revelation from previous prophets, especially revelation that goes against what Joseph taught, like D&C 132 does.)

    Anyway, that book has tons of true historical data that a wonderful older couple spent years compiling, so they could help prove Joseph's innocence in polygamy and clear his name of the vile accusations that have been spread about him since his death. Their historical data is wonderful. Don't be put off just because they are not LDS, for truth can be found from many different sources, and the Spirit and a study of the scriptures, especially the BoM will help you discern all truth from error.

    Also, if Brigham Young and his followers were apostates, as I believe he and they all were, then of course the Church would have kept all this vital truth and information 'hidden' and not talk about what Joseph really said when he was alive, for it surely reveals how Brigham Young and others spread contrary hearsay and teachings to what Joseph always said. So it's easy to see why we can't depend on the LDS Church to bring these true historical records and published accounts from Joseph to light.

    I do not believe nor can I find any proof anywhere that Joseph ever preached or practiced polygamy, but I have found much proof that he fought valiantly against it his whole life. The vile accusations against Joseph regarding horrendous behavior towards his wife and other women by polygamy appear to be all based on lies, rumors and hearsay, 'not' published and proven accounts from Joseph himself.

    I will also post some of the sections of the original D&C that Joseph put in and BY took out, plus I will post some 'proven quotes by Joseph Smith that he published himself during his lifetime. Sorry that some are so long.

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    1. To Anon 10:55 (Part 3)

      “I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time.” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 324.

      “The law of the land & the rules of the Church do not allow one man to have more than one wife alive at once.” Times & Seasons 5:715, Nov. 15, 1844.

      “Gave instruction to try those who were preaching, teaching or practicing the doctrine of plurality of wives or this law – Joseph forbids it, and the practice thereof. No man shall have but one wife.” Joseph Smith’s diary, Oct. 5, 1843. Church Historical Dept.

      Both Hyrum & Joseph Smith gave their testimonies & both denied & branded ‘a lie’ that a revelation had been received that provided for polygamy. In the ‘Nauvoo Neighbor’, June 18, 1844. (This document can be seen at the City Library of New York. It is highly important for it was given just a few days before these men were murdered by a mob.)

      “I had not been married scarcely five minutes and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives. I mean to live and proclaim the truth as long as I can. This new holy prophet William Law, has gone to Carthage and swore that I had told him that I was guilty of adultery. I wish the grand jury would tell me who they are – whether it will be a curse or blessing to me. A man asked me whether the commandment was given that a man may have 7 wives, & now the new prophet has charged me with adultery. Wilson Law (William’s bro.) also swears that I told him I was guilty of adultery. I have rattled chains before in a dungeon for truth’s sake. I am innocent of all these charges, & you can bear witness of my innocence for you know me yourselves… This ‘spiritual wife-ism’, why a man does not speak or wink, for fear of being accused of this. I am quite tired of the fools asking me… What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago and I can prove them all perjurers (liers). I labored with these apostates myself until I was out of all manner of patience.” Joseph Smith, History of the Church 6:408-412. May 26, 1844. (Very important testimony, for it was given just 1 month before his death)





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  39. To Anon 10:55 (Part 2)

    “IT IS LAWFUL THAT HE SHOULD HAVE ‘ONE’ WIFE.”
    D&C 49:16

    ON MARRIAGE. “According to the custom of all civilized nations, marriage is regulated by laws and ceremonies: therefore we believe, that all marriages in this church of Christ of Latter Day Saints, should be solemnized IN A PUBLIC MEETING, or feast, prepared for that purpose; and that the solemnization should be performed by a presiding high priest, high priest, bishop, elder, or priest, not even prohibiting those persons who are desirous to get married, of being married by other authority. We believe that it is not right to prohibit members of this church from marrying out of the church, if it be their determination so to do, but such persons will be considered weak in the faith of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Marriage should be celebrated with prayer and thanksgiving; and at the solemnization, the persons to be married, STANDING TOGETHER, the man on the right, and the woman on the left, shall be addressed, by the person officiating, as he shall be directed by the holy spirit; and if there be no legal objections, he shall say, calling each other by their names: “YOU BOTH MUTUALLY AGREE TO BE EACH OTHER’S COMPANION, HUSBAND AND WIFE, OBSERVING THE LEGAL RIGHTS BELONGING TO THIS CONDITION; THAT IS, KEEPING YOURSELVES WHOLLY FOR EACH OTHER, AND FROM ALL OTHERS, DURING YOUR LIVES.” And when they have answered “YES”, he shall pronounce them “HUSBAND AND WIFE” in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and by virtue of the laws of the country and authority vested in him: “MAY GOD ADD HIS BLESSINGS AND KEEP YOU TO FULFILL YOUR COVENANTS FROM HENCEFORTH AND FOREVER. AMEN.” The clerk of every church should keep a record of all marriages, solemnized in his branch. All legal contracts of marriage made before a person is baptized into this church, should be held sacred & fulfilled. INASMUCH AS THIS CHURCH OF CHRIST HAS BEEN REPROACHED WITH THE CRIME OF FORNICATION, & POLYGAMY: WE DECLARE THAT WE BELIEVE, THAT ONE MAN SHOULD HAVE ONE WIFE; & ONE WOMAN, BUT ONE HUSBAND, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again. It is not right to persuade a woman to be baptized contrary to the will of her husband, neither is it lawful to influence her to leave her husband. All children are bound by law to obey their parents; & to influence them to embrace any religious faith, or be baptized, or leave their parents without their consent, is unlawful & unjust. We believe that husbands, parents & masters who exercise control over their wives, children, & servants & prevent them from embracing the truth, will have to answer for that sin. WE HAVE GIVEN THE ABOVE RULE OF MARRIAGE AS THE ONLY ONE PRACTICED IN THIS CHURCH, to show that Dr. J.C. Bennett’s ‘secret wife system’ is a matter of his own manufacture; & further to disabuse the public ear, & shew that the said Bennett & his misanthropic friend Origen Bachelor, are perpetrating a foul & infamous slander upon an innocent people, & need but be known to be hated & despise. D&C 101, 1835 Edition,
    (The LDS Church adopted by conference the revelation prohibiting polygamy. Section 101 was quietly removed in 1876 (without sustaining vote) & section 132 encouraging polygamy inserted in it’s place.)




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  40. To Anon 10:55 (Part 4)

    “TO THE ELDERS ABROAD - We very frequently receive letters from elders and individuals abroad, inquiring of us whether certain statements that they hear, and have written to them, are true; some pertaining to John C. Bennett’s spiritual wife system; others in regard to immoral conduct, practiced by individuals, and sanctioned by the church; and as it is impossible for us to answer all of them, we take this opportunity of answering them all, once for all. In the first place, we cannot but express our surprise that any elder or priest who has been in Nauvoo, and has had an opportunity of hearing the principles of truth advanced, should for one moment give credence to the idea that any thing like iniquity is practiced, much less taught or sanctioned, by the authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We are the more surprised, since every species of iniquity is spoken against, and exposed publicly at the stand, and every means made use of that possibly can be, to suppress vice, both religious and civil; not only so, but every species of iniquity has frequently been exposed in the Times and Seasons, and its practisers and advocates held up to the world as corrupt men that ought to be avoided. We are however living in the “last days,” a time when the scriptures say “men shall wax worse, and worse; deceiving and being deceived;” in a time when it is declared, “if it is possible the very elect should be deceived.” We have in our midst corrupt men, (and let no man be astonished at this for “the net shall gather in of every kind, good and bad,”) these corrupt men circulate corrupt principles, for a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit; these spread their pernicious influence abroad, “they hatch cockatrices eggs, and weave the spider’s web; he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper;” their words eat as doth a canker; “the poison of asps is under their tongue, and the way of peace they have not known.” Such men not infrequently go abroad and prey upon the creduly of the people, probably have clandestinely obtained an ordination, and go forth as elders, the more effectually to impose upon the public. Some have got horses, and others money, under specious pretences, from the unwary and unsuspecting, among the newly formed branches who have not had the sagacity to detect them. There are other men who are corrupt and sensual, and who teach corrupt principles for the sake of gratifying their sensual appetites, at the expense and ruin of virtue and innocence. Such men ought to be avoided as pests to society, and be frowned down upon with contempt by every virtuous man and woman.


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  41. To Anon 10:55 (Part 5)

    “TO THE ELDERS ABROAD - (Quote continued) All of the above, of whatever name or nature, are “reprobate concerning the faith;” if they write, they write corruptly; if they speak, they speak corruptly. They are such as the apostle speaks of, they speak “great swelling words, having men’s persons in admiration.” – They are high and lifted up, and would trample upon the humble, and the meek, and the unassuming, and are not afraid to teach for the commandment of God, their own corrupt, and devilish doctrines, and principles; let no man therefore, be deceived by them, let no man harbor them, nor bid them God speed; don’t be partakers of their evil deeds. If any man writes to you, or preaches to you, doctrines contrary to the Bible, the Book of Mormon, or the book of Doctrine and Covenants, set him down as an imposter. You need not write to us to know what you are to do with such men; you have the authority with you. – Try them by the principles contained in the acknowledged word of God; if they preach, or teach, or practice contrary to that, disfellowship them; cut them off from among you as useless and dangerous branches, and if they are belonging to any of the quorums in the church, report them to the president of the quorum to which they belong, and if you cannot find that out, if they are members of an official standing, belonging to Nauvoo, report them to us. Follow after purity, virtue, holiness, integrity, Godliness, and every thing that has a tendency to exalt and ennoble the human mind; and shun every man who teaches any other principles. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons 5:490-491, April 1, 1844.




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  42. Wow, thank you, anon 23--
    I've read most of it and will finish it--

    I appreciate your directing me towards that 'bookstore'; I know they are RLDS (sort of; I've read that they are not quite pleased with the Community of Christ, because they are more focused on the restoration)--
    and I have NO problem with that--

    Thank you--
    for all your time and trouble--
    :)

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    1. I'm so glad to hear you will investigate these truths. For as the Church says, "Only if you are unafraid of the truth can you find it."

      I have more quotes from Joseph against polygamy if you would like me to post them. I just didn't want to go on & on with all the quotes yet until I know someone's interested, but the quotes are great and powerful and very revealing of how Joseph really felt and what he warned the Saints of.

      I firmly believe that Joseph never preached or practiced polygamy and that it was Brigham Young and others who started it and tried to justify it all by tagging it on Joseph, when he wasn't there anymore to defend himself. Yet his published teachings speak from the dust and the Spirit can help us know what is true.

      Brigham Young taught many things opposite to what Joseph taught. Joseph did not believe in slavery, BY did, JS did not believe in polygamy, BY did, JS did not believe in withholding Priesthood to blacks, BY did. JS believed in being kind and fair to the Indians, BY didn't. JS believed in 'public' marriages, BY didn't.
      There is no proof that JS believed in the temple ceremonies, BY started all that. etc. etc.

      I believe the Church went into apostasy after Joseph died (which latter day apostasy was prophesied repeatedly by BoM prophets) and the righteous who saw through Brigham Young and his falsehoods had to lead and teach their own families from then on without a true prophet to lead them, for the majority of the Saints had rejected the Prophets warnings and wanted to seek after whoredoms instead of the Gospel of Christ, thus they lost their Prophet.

      I believe that soon Christ & Joseph Smith will return to re-establish the true Church in Zion. Until then the righteous have the scriptures that Joseph Smith left us and they can receive additional personal revelation as needed straight from the Spirit.

      Even Christ clearly taught against polygamy, yet most miss it, see Matt. 19:9. Christ explains that men commit adultery when they marry a 2nd 'living' wife, even if they divorce the 1st one 1st. For the divorce is invalid and they are still really married. Thus he is saying that there's no way a man can marry 2 living wives without committing adultery.

      There are also many other supportive scriptures and quotes that prove polygamy the whoredom that Joseph and ancient prophets always said it was, we just have to be open to the truth and have a Christlike spirit.

      Another helpful site is puremormonism.blogspot.com He has many helpful articles on his site, especially the one's about polygamy and church history. He is a great writer with a wonderful way of explaining things. But I don't necessarily agree with everything he talks about and says. But his site is very helpful with much truth to gain.



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  43. Okay, it looks like I'm going to have to print this one out. Too much to read on a screen, yet it seems like good info to have.

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  44. post-general conference saturday a.m. session:

    a policy change . . .

    change of age when missionaries can serve; that is 'revelation'.

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  45. I don't mind when there is no revelation; I just want it to be called what it is--

    I don't think the term "prophet, seer, revelator" should be used simply for policy changes.

    I do believe the president of the church holds keys--

    I think that is enough, isn't it?

    same as 11:17--

    or the quorum does; I am not sure, historically, which it is meant to be, but I do believe the keys are there, even if the men holding them don't act prophetically and mostly managerially--

    sp?

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