Thursday, October 25, 2012


"And Enoch continued his preaching in righteousness unto the people of God.
And it came to pass in his days, that he built a city that was called the City of Holiness,
even Zion." 
 Moses 7:19
"When the Lord shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory."
Psalms 102: 16

 I attended church in Oregon last Sunday. This chapel is one of two buildings in the world that has all of the Articles of Faith carved out on the front of the building. Below is a zoomed up and cropped photo highlighting four words from the tenth article of Faith, "we believe that Zion will be built upon the American continent."

Yes, Zion will be built. However, Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself. Doctrine and Covenants 105:5. What are those principles? Unfortunately the current track we are on will eventually provoke the judgements of God. However, there is nothing to fear if we are individually in the right way. In the meantime, we are here to serve, with meekness, our fellow Saints. There is absolutely nothing which prevents us from going about doing good, just at the Master did. 

The scriptures talk about two ways that Zion has been built. Enochs way which was built before the destruction. The righteous gathered and were taked before the destruction of the world by flood. The other way is the Book of Mormon's way in which the Savior came AFTER the destruction. Destruction happened ...then the Savior helps establish  Zion. I wonder if we had the choice 4 generations ago, but now we have to go with plan B.. the Book of  Mormon's way.

Here are a couple of things to think about when we start to see unrest and civil disorder come upon our land.  The scriptures also describe Zion to be in the mountains, not in the valleys. Possibly one of the reasons why the city of Zion is on high ground is that the “wicked” are at a disadvantage if they decide to attack. Violence is hard to draw back in once it is started. The wicked slay the wicked, and if we start killing people, we become the “wicked.” Some come to like the killing, they become twisted in their violence and defense and this is actually a RISK to the purity of Zion.

So, the protection of Zion will be the Priesthood and Nature-not Force.


Here is an interesting thing I saw this weekend as I was driving along side the freeway in Oregon. I felt impressed to pull my car over. I looked over to my left and saw 3 large bird flying next to me.  I pulled out my camera and took some photos. I saw one of the birds start to fly higher and away from the two lower birds. Then all of a sudden the two lower birds began attacking each other. It seemed eerie to see these two birds fighting in midair. It appeared they both were hurt and then landed to the ground.


R. said...

Great post. I especially liked the sidenote with the pictures.

Anonymous said...

Wow! I had totally missed the two different ways Zion was established...and the possible corollary between the time period with Joseph likening to Enoch and probability that we get the Book of Mormon version. I really appreciate your insight on that.


AndEva said...

This is so powerful, I dont quite know what to say.

Unknown said...

Thank you. You have made some powerful points. "The wicked slay the wicked, and if we start killing people, we become the wicked.”

Denver Snuffer said this 2 1/2 years ago ...

"I do not foresee that a gun will be effective against radioactivity; nor against weaponized anthrax. I read the plagues that are coming and the descriptions in D&C 29: 15-21 and I do not foresee a handgun doing me any good under those circumstances. I see wicked being killed, but no role for me and a sidearm to join in the fray.

"I do not foresee any need for Zion to be protected by armed machine-gun nests around a perimeter when a pillar of smoke by day and fire by night hangs over them. (D&C 45: 65-71.) In the description, it does not say they go up with songs of joy, interrupted by occasional gunfire and all hell breaking loose. It says they proceed quite peacefully, singing songs of everlasting joy. (verse 71.)

"When sickness and scourge are poured out, there will be widespread death and destruction. But there is no need for me to join in the killing. In fact, all those who take up the sword are included within the ranks of the wicked scheduled to die. (D&C 45: 30-33.)

IF "all those who take up the sword are included within the ranks of the wicked scheduled to die", I would rather trust my life wholly in the Savior's hands rather than run the risk of becoming part of the wicked scheduled to die.

Just my two cents. Again, thank you for a great post.

Bruce said...

The pictures are so appropriate to this article. The birds are symbolic of us. Will we fly away to safety or will we stay and fight among ourselves? I'm all for flight.
I hope plan "B" is not all we have to look forward to.
I'm still hoping for Enoch to appear.
But where O where is he?

As always...thanks for another great post.


Steve said...

I wonder if firearms or fighting have any place among a Zion people. To protect a loved one? To protect food storage? To procure meat?

Great post and insight into the 2 methods of joining Zion. It does appear the Lord tried plan A at the beginning of the dispensation. It always amazes me how quickly He started trying to build Zion after the establishment of the Church. No delays or waiting for the Saints to learn something. Just go to and build Zion.

Rob said...

Steve I was just thinking about that the other day. The Spirit said to me that things will be like they were for Lehi and his family. They had to kill animals for meat despite being on an assigned task to move to the promised land. Notably, they never had to fight against marauders or thieves, etc. apart from Laban.And that certainly was not a traditional battle.

AndEva said...

Rob, The whole story of Lehi and his family and the events in their lives, has been very powerful to our family lately in many instances. This is a unique time to be living in.

Anonymous said...

Part 1.

The law of the Celestial Kingdom, that Zion will be built upon, is love, unconditional pure Christlike love, which is Charity. Without it we are nothing & are easily deceived to do evil and fall for false doctrine & false prophets, but we never realize we have, we almost always still feel righteous & right, even though we may be wicked.

Only those who believe in and possess this unconditional pure love will be worthy of and ready for and called to Zion.

The problem is, there are few, if any, members or leaders of the Church today who seem to even believe in, let alone possess, Charity, or unconditional love. I have been in the Church my whole life & I don't know of any members or leaders who even believe in this high Celestial Law & the Gospel of Jesus Christ, let alone live it & possess true Charity.

Many say they believe in Christ, but their actions and what they support reveals their true beliefs & feelings, & when it comes right down to it they don't believe in having or expecting unconditional love from themselves or others.

The current LDS Church and it's leaders appear to not believe in, let alone possess, Christ-like Charity anymore, not since the days of Joseph, especially in the vital area of 'marriage', which is usually the true test of Charity, true unconditional love. Marriage is where everyone really shows whether they really possess it or not. The Church & all it's leaders appear to instead, encourage, condone, support and reward abuse, abandonment and adultery, by allowing it's members to now abandon & divorce their spouse for any reason & usually without any consequences, and date or remarry another, which is of course 'adultery', as Christ clearly taught it was. Clearly the Church does not believe in or expect it's members to live the Gospel & have 'unconditional true love' (Charity) anymore.

Joseph Smith seems to be the last LDS Leader who believed in and possessed true Charity. He was the last leader who refused to fall for polygamy, which is just another form of abuse & adultery to a wife & women. He preached & warned against it over & over, but few listened to him, not even most apostles or leaders. All other church leaders after him appeared to easily fall for & support the vile abusiveness & adultery of polygamy.

Joseph understood the necessity of having true Charity & respect for one's spouse, & especially respect & protection for women against abuse, adultery & abandonment. Joseph understood the absolute vital responsibility that leaders have in making sure that members did not abandon their spouses. He taught that if a leader allows a member to abandon their spouse then that leader will lose their salvation. A leader's #1 duty is to protect members from being abandoned or abused by a spouse.

Anonymous said...

Part 2.

Joseph taught that only those who possess Charity 'cannot be deceived' by the craftiness of men and false prophets and false doctrine, and thus only they will be worthy of the Celestial Kingdom (& Zion). (D&C 45 & 76)

The BoM repeatedly warned of & foresaw the latter-day apostasy that has occurred, where everyone in the Church today, except a rare few, has become deceived to do or support evil, like divorce & remarriage, etc.

Thus, those who are ready and worthy for Zion seem to be very few, or at least are not among the LDS.

I believe that Lord will prepare & establish Zion & collect the righteous to it 'before' the major destructions start, just like he prepared the 'ark' & collected the few righteous into it 'before' the rains started. He warned the people to enter the ark and he has warned us today to live the Gospel of love to be worthy to be led to & enter Zion before the destructions start.

But I do not know of anyone in the Church or anywhere who has listened to the Lord's call to gain Charity & prepare for Zion. Everyone I know, though they are mostly good & honorable people, have been deceived to support the vilest of evils, but they don't fully realize it & they don't seem to want to realize it. And they surely don't believe in true unconditional love, especially not in marriage, where Charity is most needed and most commanded. For if we can't love our spouse unconditionally & keep our covenants to them, and thus have Charity for our spouse (the most important person in our lives), then I believe it's impossible for us to have true Charity for anyone else. We are commanded to love our spouse more than anyone else in the world, even more than our children or ourselves, yet I do not know of anyone who does this.

I do not know of any righteous person or anyone who appears to be living the Celestial law of Charity. I believe there are a few people who do such out there, but they are so rare it's almost impossible to find them. I don't know anyone who even believes in Christ's high Celestial laws, so I don't believe the LDS Church or it's leaders or members, except for maybe a rare member here or there, who will have any knowledge of where or when Zion is established.

I believe Zion will be established by true prophets who have nothing to do with the current apostate LDS Church, yet they will know of & believe in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon and they will have the Holy Priesthood & keys to do the work of establishing Zion. I believe individual holy and Christlike people who possess true charity will be gathered to Zion, probably just 1 of a family or 2 of a city, who will be visited by or guided by angels & God who will lead them to where Zion is. Just like Lot, Lehi & Joseph were led.

Everyone else will have no clue it is even happening or has happened.

Anonymous said...

Just an fyi... the word "unconditional" is found nowhere in the standard works. The dream of Lehi describes how God's love works very well - and you can see Laman and Lemuel never "had" that love. Everything is conditional - blessings are conditional, eternal rewards are conditional, cursings are conditional, damnation is conditional, exaltation is conditional and yes, even love is conditional. The one thing you could say is that God *offers* His love unconditionally... but it certainly is not received unconditionally.

Anonymous said...

Yes, we are on Plan B. If Plan A took Enoch 365 years, how long does Plan B take?

Loved the post.

Anonymous said...

I agree that blessings, rewards, cursings, damnation & exaltation, etc. are definitely not unconditional. Loving someone unconditionally does not mean we reward them or bless them unconditionally. It just means that we love them no matter what & pray for them, serve them & try to help them be happy and achieve Exaltation, even if they do not deserve our love & service. Christ loved, served & gave his life for his enemies too, even if he didn't agree with or like what they did.

Heavenly Father loves his children no matter what they are like, just like we should, but that doesn't mean he blesses his children with the same blessings or is happy with each child the same, for his children can bring him pain or happiness & we must earn the blessings we receive by keeping the laws upon which those blessing are predicated. But love is a separate thing than rewards & blessings.

In our families we can love our spouse, children & other relatives unconditionally, but that does not mean we let them do anything they want, or that we 'do' anything they ask us to or that we 'give' them everything they ask for. Unless it's our spouse, who we should fulfill their every wish, for their needs & wants & wishes come before our own desires, needs or feelings, unless, of course, they ask for something evil, then we should not go along with such a request.

I also agree that just because God or we offer love to others, doesn't mean they will accept his or our love at the time, but someday everyone will receive God's & our love, for everyone must eventually repent in the next life if they don't here, and no one can resist true love forever.

Anonymous said...

Even though the word 'unconditional' is not in the scriptures, I believe it is very clear that that is the type of love Heavenly Father & Christ have for us & the kind of love they command us to have for others.

For those who believe in the present Church & it's leaders, even many of those G.A.'s have taught in manuals & talks about the 'unconditional love' that God & Christ have for us.

The scriptures don't use every word we presently use today, for word usage changes in different dispensations & generations. But we certainly can understand the meaning behind the Savior's example & teachings, regardless of the words he uses. Actions speak louder than words anyway.

Anonymous said...

Christ's Atonement is unconditional only in the sense that all will be resurrected. In order for His blood to atone for our sins, there are strict conditions that must be met on our part. Otherwise we will pay for our own sins, down to the last whit. No enemy of Christ can claim the mercy of the Atonement, in this life or the next. Do not kid yourself. The scriptures are very plain on this matter, but it seems this generation would rather read LDS commentaries and novels and historical fiction than the Word.

It's a strange thing to base one's beliefs on what the "word usage" du jour is, in my opinion. Sounds like the Jews who killed Christ, to me.

Unknown said...

In a dream a few years ago I was shown the destruction of the Americas because we had not repented (both LDS and Americans). I also witnessed my own death while trying to flee the calamities, and then I watched events unfold as an spirit from the Spirit World trying to help others. Well, I was given to know that I was killed because of my idolatry and iniquity. However, I could not for the life of me understand what I was doing or was going to do that was so wrong.

Eventually, I discovered Denver Snuffer and his writings, and they have answered so many impressions and thoughts that I had in that dream. I wonder, is it now possible that by directly seeking the Second Comforter and attempting to truly repent, that I might survive the calamities that I witnessed in my dream? Or am I still doomed to be destroyed with everyone else who were wicked idolators that were puffed up in the pride of their hearts?

Regardless of when or what is to come, I would like the opportunity to remain among the survivors, even as I have a good idea of how terrible things will be. Would it be wrong for me to ask my Heavenly Father to grant me such a wish? Or should I be content with seeking the Second Comforter in this life in the flesh?

Anonymous said...

I agree with you on the Atonement, it is very conditional, for it is a blessing or gift, that we must become worthy of in this life, except for the part of overcoming death, which is Christ's gift to everyone, because of his 'unconditional love'.

But the Atonement is not love and is not what I'm referring to, it is what Christ did for us, 'because of' his amazing unconditional love for us. The more we love him back, by doing the things he did (serving others), the more his gift of the Atonement is effective in our lives. For as we already agreed, gifts are usually very conditional.

I do not base my beliefs on the 'word usage' of the day, even if I so identify such 'word usage', I base my beliefs on the teachings & example of Christ & his true disciples & the Holy Spirit, they are where I learn of the truth & necessity of 'unconditional love'.

Anonymous said...

I would take that as a "warning"... be thankful for it... and know it is possible to change your future for the better if you desire to do so. It might've been a "heads up" for where your then-path was leading you. What a blessing!

Anonymous said...


I believe any of us can repent and change as long as we have additional time on earth to do so. And it will make alot of difference if we do, not only in this life but especially the next.

I would say you were given a great gift, a warning to awake & change some things in your life. Heavenly Father is trying to help you prepare spiritually for what is coming, and now you can be more ready for the coming events. Whether it is God's will that you stay or remain on earth or not, you can always pray to stay, while asking that his will be done.

I think you are like all of us, we all are unaware of our weaknesses and sins that we should be repenting of. Everyone usually feels righteous & inspired by God even if they are not.

Thus we should all be praying to awake & to be able to see & repent of our sins, before it's too late.

Anonymous said...

I certainly home 'mountain' isn't literal, geographically, because we left the mountains a long time ago for a safer place--

I think 'mountain' is a term for sacred place, because, before temples were built, mountains were considered sacred. What I have seen in the intermountain west isn't . . . the same thing--

Anonymous said...

hope, not home; I am sorry.

I appreciate your blog, by the way--and what you have written, very much.

LDS Anarchist said...

The scriptures talk about two ways that Zion has been built. Enochs way which was built before the destruction. The righteous gathered and were taked before the destruction of the world by flood. The other way is the Book of Mormon's way in which the Savior came AFTER the destruction. Destruction happened ...then the Savior helps establish Zion. I wonder if we had the choice 4 generations ago, but now we have to go with plan B.. the Book of Mormon's way.

The Book of Mormon way might have been just the same as the City of Enoch way in the sense that the righteous were gathered into areas of safety prior to the destruction. The record states that "the more righteous" among them were the ones who survived (see 3 Ne. 10:12.) Also, that those who repented had to "come unto" those who held authority to baptize them, in the year before the destruction. (See 3 Ne. 7:24.) It may have been that the preachers were out among the people, preaching repentance, and then telling all those who repented to flee to the designated places of safety to be baptized.

The area near the temple in the land of Bountiful was possibly one of the appointed places of gathering and safety, which is why there was a "great multitude" (3 Ne. 11:1) gathered there when the Lord appeared. Later they sent people to other places to tell the survivors that Jesus would appear the next day and this took them the whole night (see 3 Ne. 19:2-3.) They were so successful in finding these survivors that "an exceedingly great number" of people had arrived at the appointed place, ready to meet Jesus.

Now, perhaps they were just lucky at finding survivors, or perhaps there were previously appointed gathering spots for the righteous and these messengers simply went directly to all the centers of safety, to tell the people gathered there that Jesus had appeared at the Bountiful location.

One last thing, even if what I propose is correct, none of these gathered saints could establish Zion, for the laws of Zion had not, yet, been given to them. And these laws were slated to be given only after the Savior appeared to them. So, even if they were gathered, like Enoch's city, they couldn't be established like his city, for they did not have all the laws which he had.

Anonymous said...

I do not believe anyone needs any further 'laws' to establish a 'Zion' type community, for anyone who has the 'New Testament' which has the laws of Christ in it, has all they need to gain Charity and become a Zion people. That does not mean that they would possess Priesthood authority though, but they sure would enjoy other blessings of a Zion society.

I myself wonder why there are no 'true' prophets among us calling the people to repentance yet. Surely you would think that true prophets would arrive on the scene soon.

But maybe it's just too late for this people and God has already tried but no one listened (for they rejected Joseph Smith & his scriptures & teachings against polygamy & other sins) and so maybe God won't give the members of the Church another chance.

But certainly there must be true prophets somewhere on the earth. It would be wonderful to find one.

Anonymous said...

No true Prophets? Perhaps you have not read any of the writings of John Pontius or Denver Snuffer?
I agree that at this point in the progression of the world into evil that there should be true Prophets.
Take a look at this website:

Anonymous said...

Another who could probably qualify as a true Prophet in many ways is Avraham Gileadi. He is an Isaiah scholar who is teaching how to understand Isaiah's prophesies and how to escape the wrath of God which is certainly coming in the last days.

Dan said...

Thank you for keeping up the fight!

A comment on your post:
I think we will see both types filled, it being the last days.

Group one will gather prior to destruction, and in the immediate face of it (at midnight) for a new exodus. They will be protected as the ancients with the Lords presence (per denver above and Avraham, Isaiah).

Group two will barely survive the Gentile destruction, have their hearts changed in the harrowing process and eventually join those who had left on the exodus with protection, the 3 Nephi type.

When they join the remnant, Zion above will join Zion beneath.

Lets not forget that it is our turn NOW to create Zion. A pure heart starts with individuals. The Lord will create that with in you when you are ready. That relationship is our only saving grace in times like this, and only the pure in heart will be in Zion. The peace of Zion is available.

You ravens reminded me of Josephs last dream. As soon as Joseph left, the other two fought and brought about their own fall.

Well done and thank you for your efforts!

Anonymous said...

There are. I didn't see them at first or more so, didn't recognize them. Remember, prophets are either ignored or rejected by most.

When things change for you, the veil will thin until it's removed and you will see. No one can show you. You have to go inside yourself first.

George Washington said...

If one believes D&C 136:31-- that the Lord will try the Saints in "ALL THINGS" before leading them back to Missouri to build Zion-- then "all things" certainly could include a time when the Saints should claim their right to NOT sustain the present church leadership.

As long as the majority of the LDS choose to automatically sustain everything the leadership teach and do, then any errors that have been brought into the church will continue to remain in the church. The church will not receive further "thus saith the Lord" revelation until it begins to sincerely try to live by the many many D&C revelations that are now ignored.

Anonymous said...

I am already familiar with both Pontius and Snuffer and I do not believe them or agree with them on many doctrines and issues. And I certainly don't believe they are prophets. I believe true prophets would be preaching some very different things then they are. Same with Gileadi.

I believe many people today (including all leaders and members of the Church, except a rare person), as prophesied, are being deceived by false Christs, false visions, false revelation, false prophets, false teachers and false doctrine.

If there are any true prophets on the earth right now, and I believe there are, I don't believe they would be part of the current LDS Church, which I believe is in the deep 'latter day apostasy' that the BoM Prophets foretold would happen in these last days. And that apostasy started when Joseph died and Brigham Young took over and began preaching and practicing whoredoms and abominations.

True prophets would be preaching such a far different gospel than anything the members of the Church have heard of, that I doubt hardly any would recognize true prophets and the true gospel of Jesus Christ, for it hasn't been preached for over 150 years, not since Joseph died. The true gospel is quite opposite what Brigham Young and his successors have preached and practiced.

The sad thing is, most of the Saints rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ when Joseph tried to teach it to them, and it seems that most all LDS would again reject it if true prophets came preaching it again.

Toni said...

"I myself wonder why there are no 'true' prophets among us calling the people to repentance yet. Surely you would think that true prophets would arrive on the scene soon."

This bothered me, too. We had bona fide leaders of the church, with the right to receive revelation for the church, but where were the biblical prophet-types? The men who had seen Jesus face to face and He told them to boldly preach repentance. The leaders we have are very careful in what they say to "protect the church" and themselves.

Well, I begged God to bring someone to warn us. I asked Him, "Don't you love us? If you do, where are the prophets who speak boldly?"

Several years later, I was introduced to the words of Denver Snuffer. I was bored by him at first, but when I actually began to seriously see what he had to say, I found someone who fit what I had prayed and begged for. So, I asked the Father if this was a prophet (biblical type) sent by Him, and He told me "yes".

So, there is one among us. He boldly proclaims. He seeks no following (one way you can tell he isn't a false prophet). He speaks plainly even when it offends others. He fears only God. He has seen the Lord face to face many times. And he often points out that the messenger is unimportant; it is the message that is vital, and that message is to turn to Christ, to seek Him with all your souls until you have found Him, until you have seen Him - here - in this life, not in some far off "some day".

Toni said...

Perhaps, and I mean no offense in this, it is time you stopped believing that your perception is the right way; that if you don't believe it, it must of necessity be false. Just because you disagree with someone does not automatically make them "not a prophet". Just because you believe God cannot raise up a true prophet who is a member of this church does not mean it is a fact, anymore than the perception of others is true that God cannot raise up a true prophet unless he be a sustained member of the council of the 12 (15).

Humility is the key. Being willing to be wrong. Being willing to hear the truth, even if it hurts, is uncomfortable, doesn't fit your present paradigm.

I did not start out thinking this man was a true messenger from God. I did not believe everything he was saying, either. But I want truth. I want to shed all lies, including my pets, my favorites, the things I "know" are absolute, set in stone, God-given truths.

I reiterate, just because we think something is true does not mean it is. Just because we are offended or uncomfortable about some person or teaching does not mean they are false prophets or that the teaching is wrong/of the devil/etc.