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Monday, March 17, 2014

247: WHAT INFLUENCE ARE WE UNDER?

Today is St. Patrick's Day.. Since this is a holiday where many people get drunk...after tonight, a large percentage of people (especially if they are Irish)  would answer "Alcohol" to the question "What influence are you under?"

 If only we all could answer the question that we are under the influence of The Spirit of the Lord. If we truly are keeping our Sacrament Covenants by being willing to take upon us the Name of the Christ, always remembering Him, and keeping His Commandments, we are promised to have His Spirit to be with us.. ALWAYS.

However, if we fail to live up to our covenants, we are under another influence. From the chapter "On the Sacred and the Symbolic" from Hugh Nibley's book, Eloquent Witness, Nibley writes:

    "What is the result of failing to live up to our covenants? It is to be under Satan's influence; there is no other alternative, for you cannot "serve two masters" (Matthew 6:24)....

    "The ordinances must be kept in the way God appointed: otherwise their priesthood will prove a curse rather than a blessing. There is no margin for rationalization or manipulation; "the moment we revolt at anything which comes from God, the Devil takes power." (TPJS, 169)" ...

 Good questions to ask ourselves.. What master do we serve? Have we changed any of the ordinances from the way God appointed them? Do we rationalize this changes if any change has been made? Who is in control our lives? Who has taken over power?


Furthermore in Nibleys' book he writes:

    "Many have noted the strong tendency of Latter-day Saints to avoid making waves. They seem strangely touchy on controversial issues. This begets an extreme lack of candor among the Saints, which in turn is supported by a new doctrine, according to which we have a Prophet at our head who relieves us of all responsibility for seeking knowledge beyond a certain point, making decisions, or taking action on our own." pg 414-415.

    "When the extremists take over, and the ambitious corporations prevail, when the whole earth groans, who is to be trusted in such a world? "The world always mistook false prophets for true ones," said Joseph (TPJS, 206); and he noted that loyalty oaths and protestations are actually signs of desperation and mistrust.  In the end any solution given "without revelation, without commandment, would prove a curse" (TPJS, 256).
...



 
SIDENOTES:
 
I received a few interesting emails today that I wanted to share. In answering What influence are we under? One of the answers is Money and Wealth.

Here is a 9 minute interesting video:

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuqGrz-Y_Lc&sns=em
 
EMAIL 2:
 


The LDS Church tearing down beloved school, homes near the New Zealand temple — and building a Legacy Park. The plan is for 100 new homes on the site, but they would be more expensive. "It feels like Americans came in and saw that our community was run-down and said, ‘This is not good enough. We need to put some sparkle on it,’ " Nin says. "If they had really looked at the people, they would know there is already something special here."

SL Tribune Article on New Zealand Temple

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EMAIL 3:

With permission, a friend sent me an email that contained part of a letter that was written to the Presiding Bishop.


This letter is written to express the concerns of my wife and myself. We identify ourselves as active Mormons, being lifelong members of the church, current temple recommend holders, faithful tithing payers, with callings in our ward, attending our meetings as frequently as health and work permit.

I am not sure to whom to address this, as this is written primarily out of concern for church spending, especially when it comes to tithing and other sacred offerings. Local leadership certainly can’t provide all the answers, as all tithing funds are funneled centrally to Salt Lake, to be spent as the general leadership sees fit. So it is to you I address this letter. If you feel this is out of your jurisdiction, please forward to the appropriate office.

It is my understanding that the church invests our tithing funds, using the earnings in projects/business ventures that aren’t necessarily projects that tithing funds are to be used for. Is this true? Does the church invest these sacred funds for profit? If it is so, I am concerned…since I believe that any money earned from investing tithing is still the Lord’s to be used with prudence.

The church has made some rather large investments recently. One was in the news last week: the purchase of land in Florida for over half a billion dollars. The other: City Creek shopping center. My wife and I really started to become concerned about church spending since news of City Creek reached our ears. We have not ventured to the mall, but we are in awe of such a building project that cost more per square foot than any other building project ever. I have read that the funds did not come from tithing, and that it was built using funds from the church’s “real estate arm”. Were those funds augmented with earnings from tithing investments? The church offers no transparency when it comes to finances, and as a member it is impossible to know where funds arise from, and where they are spent.

In a recent conversation with a friend, who happens to be an architect with one of the firms that the church uses to build temples and to maintain the Salt Lake temple, we learned about the high cost of planning and building a temple. We learned of the process of planning, making renderings of the rooms, each rendering costing tens of thousands of dollars. If the plans were not approved, the firm had to start over, and all that cost leading up to that point would have to be absorbed by the church. What a wasteful and careless process it sounds like! I know our temples are sacred edifices, but certainly the Lord doesn’t require custom furniture, custom rugs and carpets, fine gold and crystal furnishings. Doesn’t He care more about what is in our hearts than how we are adorned? If that is true for man, shouldn’t it be true for temples?

This architect friend informed us of a recent bathroom remodel in the Salt Lake temple that we had the privilege of using while waiting to attend a temple sealing. The bathroom was impressive, with solid onyx slabs partitioning the stalls and lining the walls, fine woodworking throughout, and beautiful hardware and fixtures. We were told the price to complete this project was $500,000. Did that come from tithing funds, since it was a temple project? How many poor members might have benefitted from those funds? How many temple trips might have been realized by members too poor to afford transportation to their nearest temple? How many mouths might have been fed?

My wife and I were recently made aware of starving LDS children in South America and southern Asia. It is estimated that up to 900 LDS children will die from starvation/malnutrition this year, while 90,000 will receive inadequate nutrition. Is church headquarters aware of this? The group that informed us about these children is called Liahona Children’s Foundation. This group is attempting to raise money to provide nutrition and education to these children and their friends. If what they claim is true, can’t more of our offerings be sent to ensure our brothers and sisters in third world countries have enough, and then some to spare? Especially since we are so richly blessed as members in North America.

I am reminded of a scripture in 2 Nephi 28: 12-13. I think as a church we need to heed all warnings from the Book of Mormon, as though they are directed towards us individually and as a church. We will certainly learn more that way.

“12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.

 13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.”

My wife and I are striving to know our Savior. We are trying to teach our children to know Him, and serve Him. We continue to pay an honest tithe, and it is our hope and prayer that the leaders of this church are being honest with those tithes. If there is a system of accountability of church leadership to the members who provide the tithes and offerings, I am unaware of it. In any corporation, there needs to be checks and balances, and I am curious if there are any checks in the church. Perhaps financial transparency would be a wise initiative, so that as members we can retake our privilege of consent, even common consent, for church expenditures.

We know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, that he restored wonderful truths to the earth, and that we may become the beneficiaries of wonderful blessings if we seek after our Savior and do as He commands. At this time we find ourselves confused at the direction the church is moving, which feels ever closer to Babylon, rather than fleeing in the opposite direction.

If you have the time and ability to answer any of these questions, we would greatly appreciate it. We have no plans of leaving this church. We are part of this church, and it is a part of us. There is not one part that ought to be esteemed greater than the other, as every member is a member of the body of Christ. It is with this thought in mind that we submit this letter to you
.

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Response Letter:





Email 4:

It was the announcement of the 2014 recipient of "The Pillar of the Valley" Award which is one of the highest awards given to man in Utah Valley.  This award is given at Utah Valley's premiere business gala event. If you want to attend the event as a capstone sponsor" it will cost $10,000 (not including the cost of the tuxedo.) The event is advertised as "This is a black tie-optional event that is first class in every way. ". Billboards can be seen in Utah Valley along the Interstate 1-15 announcing the winner.  Here is the website to see who will be receiving the award. WINNER.


BTW: An Electronic Billboard can be seen driving North on the east side of I-15 between 1600 North Orem Exit and Pleasant Grove Exit of the recipient as well. Here is a small cell phone photo:




 
 
And Lastly: New Scout lodge to be named for LDS Church President Thomas S. Monson. The lodge will be named the Thomas S. Monson Lodge in honor of the longtime Scouter and president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The lodge will be the centerpiece of the Hinckley Scout Ranch (named after the father of Gordon B. Hinckley), which is home to several separate campsites including Tomahawk, Frontier, Ridgeline and Sunrise. The nearly 23,000-square-foot lodge will feature conference rooms, restrooms, a Scoutmaster area with Wi-Fi access, a full-service kitchen, a dining patio, and program pavilions.   LINK

34 comments:

  1. This is why I love this blog. I would never know these things are happening! Half a million for a restroom! Ugh!

    Brilliant post.

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  2. Umm…what about 8 million dollars for the hardwood floors in the Gilbert Temple. My heart just aches. The thing I am baffled most about, is the response from the Presiding Bishopbric Secretary…I really don't have words…or maybe I just need to keep those words to myself.

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    1. Who told you that figure? That is disgusting. :-(

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    2. Where did you get that figure? It is truly disturbing
      :-(

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  3. And if it so be that the church is built on my gospel then will the Father show forth his own works in it.
    But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season, and by and by the end comets, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.

    3 Nephi 27:10-11

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  4. If there ever was a prophet since Joseph Smith, it would be Hugh Nibley. Hell, I'd even be comfortable referring to him as Hugh "W." Nibley. The man offered a more original, profound look at the gospel of Jesus Christ than anyone in the Church I've ever heard or read, and that includes general authorities.

    Nibley, of course, would dismiss such pedestalization. His message was entirely focused around each man finding out the truth for himself, not having our overlords in Salt Lake do it for us. I really think Nibley was more of a dissenter than he let off; he wrote what he could get away with (and that was much more than the typical Latter-day Saint), but it's clear his faith wasn't centered in the corporate church, and he was disappointed in the culture it had spawned.

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    1. Hugh would be ex'd these days because they would fear his words. he was so spot on it's crazy. we are living with Zoramites

      27 Behold, O God, they cry unto thee, and yet their hearts are swallowed up in their pride. Behold, O God, they cry unto thee with their mouths, while they are puffed up, even to greatness, with the vain things of the world.

      28 Behold, O my God, their costly apparel, and their ringlets, and their bracelets, and their ornaments of gold, and all their precious things which they are ornamented with; and behold, their hearts are set upon them, and yet they cry unto thee and say—We thank thee, O God, for we are a chosen people unto thee, while others shall perish.

      Delete

  5. BRT,

    If a church was started based on a fraud then I would question what influence the whole church was under and was built on from the beginning. In conversation with Isaac Hale, Joseph himself acknowledged that “he could not see in a stone now, nor never could"... The Book of Mormon was translated (made up by Joseph) by stone. Even though the witnesses to the Book of Mormon denied seeing the plates but when question further they did say they did handle them and see them spiritually and not naturally. Of course spirit is matter so Joseph Smith got the witnesses to agree to saying that physically they saw them, but it made some of the witnesses uncomfortable saying it in that way. Mormonism legacy is built on misleading people and changing things to give more creditability. What influence would you say that is?

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  6. I am saddened, but none of this surprises me.

    Reading Daymon Smith's book helps me.

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  7. @ 5:37 a.m.

    documentation for those quotes/facts, please.

    anonymous from 8:37 a.m.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I am at work but the original source material are cited in Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman and An Insider's View of Mormon Origins by Grant Palmer.

    David Buerger, Todd Compton, Greg Prince, Thomas Alexander, Dan Vogel, Mike Quinn and many other scholars have brought to light a lot of original source material that I would think more truth seekers would want to consider.

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    Replies
    1. I would probably think more highly of Quinn than of either Bushman or Compton, though Compton has written some really good things. I don't have anything against those men personally.
      I am not familiar with all of them.

      Delete
  9. Each week there is another fascinating dose of truth coming forth about the modern Gadiantons among the Zoramites. Bare Record- you are doing a fantastic job.

    Anonymous @ 5:37/9:09am:
    It is sad that you have dug deep only into the things that speculate on the possibility that the whole Joseph Smith/Book of Mormon proceedings were all false.
    It seems to me that you are willing to accept Grant Palmer and Bushman, over that of gaining and obtaining, and thus functioning with, the Holy Spirit. You don't know the agendas of these men, no matter how fancy their suits are, and how well their personas are displayed.
    I have read so much in the negative about these things, that it would shock you.

    However, I also am logical to know that the coin toss has a two way probability. And in the end, the ONLY way one can know is to do all you can to obtain the Holy Spirit. This does not consist of (in my opinion) going to a church you may have doubts about, paying tithing to the well groomed and well-titled thieves who are obviously robbing the faithful BLIND, nor is it about programs and callings that have been set up as red herrings to divert your focus elsewhere while the modern-day Gadiantons get a stronger foothold. On the contrary, dig deep into those scriptures and discover exactly what the Nephis and Enos', the Almas and Isaiahs, the John the Baptists etc did to santify themselves directly with their Creator, and to begin to have their eyes and understanding open to them, and to you...and me, and the rest of us.

    I implore you to research the other side of the coin- the incredible hidden historical facts that have been brushed under the carpet of the modern leadership and very much ignored by guys like Palmer, and the astonishing layers and internal coherence of ALL the scriptures we have (no, not D&C 132...it is a fake, period) before you come to the conclusion that those amazing moments of intelligence and incredible spiritual feelings you had initially were all a load of junk- this blog is a great place, and likewise the following one is simply ASTOUNDING:

    http://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/ There are historical and scriptural things in this blog that has honestly changed the lives of a few I know. It is a gamechanger.

    In addition:
    www.fulness.com/
    www.justandtrue.com/
    www.upwardthought.blogspot.com

    Give the true Gospel of Jesus a fair shake. Forget the paradigms that have been falsely throw your way. The Book of Mormon and the D&C, Book of Abraham is far deeper and absolutely full of truth, and the further I have walked away from LDS Corp., the closer I have come to my God, Jesus Christ.

    Fusion

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    Replies
    1. Seeking truth always and a confirming witness from the Holy Ghost, so far I am finding both :-)

      Delete
    2. Ha ha Fusion! Still writing like you know the background of other posters!

      Delete
    3. Aha, Anonymous- I see you still are writing like we are to know your background amongst those of other posters called 'Anonymous' ;)

      Logic claimeth her own, but if there's none...

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    4. Fusion,
      It's good to see you. I am anonymous on here, but you probably 'hear' my voice.
      I agree. The "accepted" scholars tend to denigrate Joseph Smith to the point where nobody wants to read the Book of Mormon anymore. And yet, somehow, they get away with it.
      They are "good"; they are very good at what they do.
      Thanks--
      3/18 at 8:40
      and 3/19 at 9:47 a.m.

      Delete
    5. Thank you my friend, I "hear" you. The Holy Ghost is so important even if it testifies of the truth even when history and facts say otherwise, follow the Holy Ghost.

      Fusion

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    6. Wow, I am stunned. I did NOT write that message at 10:23am above.

      Whoever wrote that is displaying exactly the kind of DECEITFULNESS their heart is full of.

      Trying to show how wrong someone is by doing deceitful things like writing under my name is Mark Hoffman-esque. Spread your lies and doubts under your own name, you gutless wimp, before you are exposed.

      Either way I am flattered once again for the effort you go through for DECEIT.

      Delete
  10. I was reading the book of Revelation today and thought it interesting that the "merchandise" of Babylon is defined in chapter 18:12-13. It includes, among the gold and fine things of life, also "slaves" but more interestingly, "the souls of men".

    When any person, business, religion, or entity enters into a relationship with Babylon and its interests, they are are not only trading money for things, but they are trading "souls of men" in the process, exchanging salvation for death, blessings for curses and ultimately utter destruction.

    Beware of Babylon and her many merchants—their greatest merchandise (Greek meaning "cargo that is filled") are the very souls of men.

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    Replies
    1. The word for merchandise in 18:12 is "gomos" in Greek, meaning cargo, as I referenced above (Strong's G1117). It might be of interest that it comes from the very root as Gomorrah (Strong's G1116). Gomorrah may link to cargo/merchandise that is ruined (amar).

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  11. On another note, one can contrast the "Pillar of the Valley" award mentioned above with another type of pillar in scripture.

    "Him that overcometh I will make a pillar in the temple of my God" (Rev. 3:12).

    In order to overcome and receive such, the terms are quite interesting:

    "I will make them of the synagogue of Satan which say they are Jews and are not, but do lie . . . hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown" (Rev. 3:9, 11).

    Why settle for a pillar in a valley when there's an invitation to become a pillar in the true and heavenly temple of God!

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  12. One of most closed mindned poster on the net, at least you are consistent Fusion.

    To the owner of this blog, maybe you can write some blogs on things you read at this site http://www.mormonfileleaks.com

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  13. Anonymous:

    You recognise me because I don't call myself 'anonymous'.

    I love that being open minded to the possibility that the Book of mormon and all those early Kirtland teachings, plus the Bible and modern-revelation are completely true in the face of so much opposition makes you claim I am closed minded! LOL

    I also love that one of us is not afraid to leave our name along with our thoughts on whichever blog I may be at with the same name 'Fusion' so that I am held accountable for anything that I state. What are you hiding behind?

    My agenda is completely transparent- read anything I have ever written and as even you stated, I am consistent. I'm willing to dig my heels in for what I feel, know and believe. I've googled 'Fusion' and my words are exclusively mine, and for better or worse here to stay. I've googled 'Anonymous' and man, trust me you are responsible for BILLIONS of contradictory statements on millions of topics including those not relevant here! What a hard-worker you are Anonymous.

    Now, what was your agenda and statements...and how does one know that you are consistent being Anonymous?!

    I am also completely flattered that you seem to assume you know me and my background whilst judging me of the same. I think I like you!

    Fusion

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    Replies
    1. I appreciate your integrity, Fusion--
      I don't always have the courage to do 'battle'; I don't want to fight with anyone--
      Don't have any fight left in me--*small lol*

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    2. Thank you, I try hard.

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    3. Amazing, folks...

      Once again I did not write this message above at 10:11am.

      And you want people to believe you in your DECEITFUL ways, as you pretend to use ny name 'Fusion'?

      Keep going...you're exposing yourself and the DECEIT you practice!

      Delete
  14. Food for thought from a discourse by the Prophet Joseph Smith given in Montrose, Iowa July 2,1839. (From History of the Church 3:385, as reported by Wilford Woodruff and Willard Richards.)
    "I will give you one of the Keys to the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: that man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives."

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  15. Was he looking at the stone when he said that? Lol

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  16. Playing the apostate card, lol Dallin Oaks said something along the same lines

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=JxyiHLg59ks

    Authority trumps truth in the LDS church , can not be surprised about darken minds :(

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  17. I have no words anymore bad enough to describe the depth of evil and corruptness in the Church today and since Brigham Young took over. It is just all so apparent that anyone who doesn't see it doesn't want to see it.

    Deception is usually a choice. We choose to see and judge between 'good or evil' or we choose to ignore it, so we don't lose out on the perks.

    Anyone who supports such corruption, arrogance and past feeling leaders, wants and chooses to support such evils.

    While, as Joseph Smith warned, the righteous would fear damnation for supporting such evils and false prophets, and thus would never do it. They wouldn't give one penny of sacred money to such wolves in sheep's clothing who like to live high on the hog on the widow's last dime.

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  18. Please excuse my judgmental outbursts they are in no way true reflection on who I really am.

    Fusion

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  19. Wow you actually hacked into my account.

    Folks, these are the kinds of deceitful people who want you to believe that Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon are lies.

    Go figure.

    Ironically, I have yet to see where I actually judged someone, but anyone can see through you now.

    My point is made. I'm done here.

    ReplyDelete