Thursday, November 13, 2014


Wicked, Perverse, and Stiffnecked are three adjectives that Moroni uses to describe those who build up churches to get gain. (Mormon 8:33) "O ye wicked and perverse and stiffnecked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get gain?"

To get gain means to obtain a profit. It is the act of acquiring, of building up, of increasing in size.  We can ask ourselves, who exactly is Moroni calling wicked, perverse, and stiffnecked?   He said "I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing." Mormon 8:35.  Is Moroni  talking about the Catholics? the Protestants? or us Latter-day Saints? Moroni knew exactly which Church it was. Christ showed Moroni who they were. Did he see us?

But surely, it can't be the LDS Church. We are the Lord's Church. Is it okay that we build other buildings to get gain, after all..they aren't churches we are buildng. Do we really think it is pleasing to the Lord that we build high rise buildings, malls, condos, office complexes, housing developments for us to own, operate and get gain?  Can we decorate and beautify Zion with profit making buildings of Babylon? and make money in the process? Are these the principles that Zion is built on?

Below are three condominium projects built up by the Church around Temple Square.  The Regent (left), 99 West (middle) and Richards Court (right).

I recently took a tour of 99 West, the upscale highrise pictured above in the middle. This 30 story condomium tower sits on the southwest corner of Temple Square and was built a few years ago. I asked the real estate agent how many of these condos have now been sold. She said that only 57% of the building has been sold or is under contact. Almost half of the building still sits vacant. Not a good sign that things are going well.

The units are selling upward to a million dollars each to over three million. The price of the condos per square foot is a little under $1,000.00 after everything is said and done. That is 10x the average selling price per square footage in Salt Lake. Most homes sell for about 100 dollars per square foot. I asked her how can the Church justify selling property for such a jacked up price? She said it is because of the view of the Temple. So in other words because of the Temple we can sell property at higher prices and get gain. Does that fall into the category that Moroni was referring to in Mormon 8?

These condos are described as "a home where enduring architecture and master crafted finishes embody your style . . . your refined taste. A place where you awake to breathtaking views and fall asleep to soothing sunsets. Your home at City Creek offers a new approach to life simplified . . . living close to everything you love to do. City Creek provides a new style of urban living in Salt Lake City, featuring a cosmopolitan atmosphere in three new residential towers."

LINK to the website.
Below is a chart of 99 West Building which shows the selling price of each condo. The condos for sell are shown in the white boxes and in the blue boxes. The green boxes are the condos that have already been sold. In case anyone is interested, a 3 bedroom, 3076 square foot unfinished condo on the top floor is still available. The asking price is 3,126,000.00.

I heard from an inside source that when these condo projects were first being built by the Church that tithing records were used to find those members who could most likely afford to buy.  Marketing material was then sent to the top tithe paying members of the Church. I hope that is not true that personal tithing information is available for marketing purposes.

Sidenote: In case you aren't in the market to buy real estate and just want to rent... the Church also owns and rents out apartments near the Temple. If you can afford paying 1,899.00 a month for a one bedroom, one bath apartment that is a little over 1000 square feet than City Creek Landing Apartments would be perfect for you. Here are a few photos of one of the apartments.   I am surprised there are some willing to pay close to 2,000.00 for a one bedroom, one bath apartment.

We would do well to read the scriptures and see if we fit any of the scenarios that the Book of Mormon prophets warn us about. There is a recurring theme found all through the Book of Mormon that warns us to not build up to get gain. We read it in the books of Nephi, Ether, Helaman, and 4 Nephi. Here are a few examples:

"Therefore they began to set their hearts upon their riches; yea, they began to seek to get gain that they might be lifted up one above another. Hel. 6:17

"And they began to be divided into classes; and they began to build up churches unto themselves to get gain, and began to deny the true church of Christ." 4 Ne. 1:26

"And now, because of the glory of the world and to get gain will they say this, and not for the glory of God." 2 Ne. 27:16

"And they were exceedingly industrious, and they did buy and sell and traffic one with another, that they might get gain." Ether 10:22

"But behold, it is to get gain, to be praised of men, yea, and that ye might get gold and silver. And ye have set your hearts upon the riches and the vain things of this world." Hel. 7:21

 "He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion."  2 Ne. 26:29

I share these things not to be critical but to show how far we are from becoming a Zion Society. There is a tremendous gulf between Zion, and what is required and who we are as a people today.

And to quote a friend, "We speak of Zion while marketing Babylon. We ask "what will sell" before we undertake any project. We study the trends of the fallen, wicked and perverse in order to adapt our faith, our words, and our conversations to appeal to Babylon. The social statistics of Latter-day Saints run about 7 years behind the larger population. We're all headed to hell, but console ourselves that we remain "peculiar" because we are slower in our descent than the larger population. It never occurs to us that a complete break will be needed."

Addendum: Here is a LINK to an interesting news story.

"The Vatican plans to build showers for the homeless under the sweeping white colonnade of St. Peter’s Square in Rome. It’s an unconventional move, even for a pope who constantly preaches that more should be done to help the poor. It also could rankle traditionalists as the homeless line up to wash beneath the extravagant apostolic apartments."

This would be a great idea for the LDS Church to consider doing  at the City Creek Center across from the Salt Lake Temple.


Taylor said...

Great post.

Anonymous said...

I am mourning the poor, the needy, the homeless, the struggling single mothers, and all those who go without, while church owned property sits empty; too important to fill with the likes of those in need, when a profit could be made instead.

db schroeder said...

Hmm. Disconcerting.

chavez said...

Does anyone know how much time,money, or assistance is given to help the less fortunate. I believe that would be more Christ like to report. Ether 5 is talking about the three witnesses testimony of the gold plates, and standing as proof of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon .
Joseph Smith said " the church will fill the earth and it would flourish


Is it more Christlike to report that all is well or our need to repent?

I agree with you of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon... it is too bad we don't read it as a warning for us as a church.

Anonymous said...

There is an interesting phrase Nephi uses in describing the church of the devil, "the whore of all the earth". What does a whore do? Dispenses intimate favors for money. His/her interests are gold, silver, fine twined linen, scarlet and silk; the finer things of the earth.

chavez said...

Just the full truth and not assume to know the heart and mind of everyone else

Annalea said...


chavez, reporting the help the church provides to the poor is embarrassing. The church doesn't really put their numbers out there, because the numbers are vanishingly small, annually, compared to their commercial investments. They starve the poor that could be fed, allow children to starve to death, while building million dollar condos and buying up half of Florida.

The best info I have access to is something that's a few years old, and it's included in the description of this youtube video:

Here's some interesting info, as well. Two snapshots of the same LDS Newsroom page, a few days apart. The Humanitarian Aid giving number is wildly different:

April 5, 2011:

April 11, 2011:

They no longer publish that number. I think it has something to do with the embarrassingly poor ratio between the humanitarian aid numbers and what has been spent on commercial developments.

But even if the second number of 1.3 billion is accurate, that's since 1985--almost THIRTY years of helping the poor . . . and it's only about a third of what they spent on City Creek over just a few years. That project cost a million a day, according to the church itself. A million dollars a day. In comparison, the church has spent an average of $118.72/day since 1985 on humanitarian causes. (Which includes a number of things that aren't food and water and shelter.) And all for a mall that is already going into its decline, in a time when many malls across America have already been abandoned, and more are heading towards bankruptcy with each passing day.

In a time when Jesus’ promise--that those who followed Him would do greater miracles than He did--is sorely needed, when we have poor and sick, maimed and halt, and a rampant epidemic of mental illness, when we are desperate for a miracle of loaves and fishes, when we NEED apostles to walk through the city, healing all those who have faith in Christ, when we are desperate for there to be no poor among us, we have a leadership working hard to increase the gap between rich and poor, holding themselves up for a light, and preaching the pleasant and comforting contents of self-help books instead of Jesus’ audacious, cataclysmic, revolutionary good news.

Annalea said...


The Book of Mormon condemns the LDS Mormon church. Soundly. And all that can be heard from the pulpit is "Follow the brethren! They'll never lead us astray!", and "All is well. Aren't we wonderful?” while one of the main messages of that book is to NOT do that very thing!

This [adapted] prayer from the book of Alma fits only too well the theme of the last General Conference:

"Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a [man], and that thou art a [resurrected, perfected man], and that thou wilt be a [resurrected, perfected man] forever.

Holy God, we believe that thou hast separated us from our brethren; and we do not believe in the tradition of [the world], which was handed down to them by the [worldliness] of their fathers; but we believe that thou hast elected us to be thy holy children; and also thou hast made it known unto us that there shall be no [more miracles in] Christ.

But thou art the same yesterday, today, and forever; and thou hast elected us that we shall be saved, whilst all around us are elected to be cast by thy wrath down to hell; for the which [blessing], O God, we thank thee; and we also thank thee that thou hast elected us, that we may not be led away after the foolish traditions of our brethren, which doth bind them down to [following] Christ [alone], which doth lead their hearts to wander far from thee, our God, [for they are deceived by evil spirits as soon as they stop following their leaders].

And again we thank thee, O God, that we are a chosen and a holy people. Amen."

(Alma 31:15-18)

Elder Russell M Nelson said...

The great thing about having a business disguised as a church is that we can work under the cover of law and line our pockets with plenty of warm fuzzies for everyone to enjoy! Our paragon is the Prophet Joseph Smith, he was truly a choice Seer, we are divinely inspired to model the growth of Zion after many of his designs. He was involved in many ventures throughout his life. My main regret is that we cannot emulate him completely, we can not bamboozle many people in the treasure hunting industry like he did. But I feel confident he will praise us when we meet him nonetheless.

Now for my stern warning towards each of you, if you persist in your strong murmurings I will cause a terrible work to go forth upon your family and friends. I will coerce them to think very evil things about you, and encourage them to shun you. At the very least I can cause them to have a miserable life by constantly reminding them about your current apostasy and your future eternal stay in hell. I have that power.

If you want to save yourself and your families from such terrible suffering, you will need to stop your childish tantrums immediately. Humble yourselves and do all that we tell you to do, and if you could do it with a smile. Please obey my heavenly inspired guidance.

If you decide to harden your hearts be very aware I am watching each of you. I will through divinely established committees will search for you and make sure that you suffer for your criticisms. Remember, I am chosen, I am the Lord's anointed, it is wrong to criticize me or any other church leader. If you want to stay on the Good Ship Zion, shape up. Otherwise, get off the boat by resigning or I will throw you off the boat. I hope you choose wisely. Your eternal salvation is on the line.

Now let me leave upon you all an apostolic blessing, I bless each of you with the spirit of remembrance in regards to your covenants to the Lord, show some respect and be grateful for His Church. I invoke the power of my priesthood to cause each of you to remember how important you are to your Heavenly Father and His plan. I hope each of you know how much the Lord loves you and wants to bless you, but first He needs you to be submissive, meek and obedient to His commandments, in addition to me and the other leaders of the church, especially His Chosen Prophet today, even President Thomas S. Monson. If you do these things with exactness and with cheerful heart I promise each of you will find peace and eternal happiness in our Father's kingdom.

I wish you each a Happy Thanksgiving!

P.S. Don't forget next month is tithing settlement so don't go too crazy shopping at City Creek's Black Friday Sales, I would not want you fall behind on your tithing, after all that's your fire insurance money. However, next time you are at City Creek, tell them I sent you and you can save 10% on your total purchases!

sushi_ said...

the first occurrence of "gain" concept was in the mind of cain under the secret oath with the adversary and which lead into the sudden expenditure of his brothers blood and life.

"that i may murder and get gain....surely the flocks of my brother falleth into my hands." (moses 5:31-33)

Anonymous said...

Ha ha sushi, you are so droll!

Toni said...

Not sure why you are laughing. Sushi is spot on.

Anonymous said...

That confusion is called a stupor of thought, so you can safely dismiss the laughter and give it no more attention.

Annalea said...

A friend corrected my math this morning. (Thanks, B!) Here's the amended version:

$1,300,000,000 divided by 10,585 (365 days X 29 years) = $122,815 per day

As he said, that gives you an idea of just how big a billion is.

That said, that 1.3 billion is total "value" of assistance given, and as it's 500 million more than the number from five days earlier, it probably includes volunteer hours and service missionary hours.

Here's what the earlier number works out to be per day:

$884.6 million in Humanitarian Aid / (365 days x 29 years) = $83,571/day

That shows you how big a million is.

It would be a laudable figure, except that, by some estimates, the church pulls in 7 billion annually. That's 19.17 million/day. Without going into a tremendous number of calculations, it seems that 1/20th of the daily revenue stream isn't too much to ask. Or even 1/40th. Especially in light of the oft-repeated injunctions throughout scripture to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted, and the fact that there are SO many destitute LDS in the world still.

Even if the church received only one billion/year, that would still be 2.7 million/day. We're talking about astronomical numbers here. There is no reason church members should be living in want or need.

Anonymous said...

This why is nuts to be your money to the LDS church.

Link is dead in 7 days said...

For DC

Margo Elders said...

Thank you for keeping us informed of what the church is doing. This is
just very troubling. I have the same reaction as when I saw Monson and his
counselors at the opening of City Creek Mall, there are just no words to describe.
Just a feeling of shock and utter sickness within me. I see this church abandoning
our Christ and his teachings for the wealth, excitement and noteriety that babylon
brings. Remeber you can buy anything in this world for money and we know who
said that. Margo Elders

Anonymous said...

thanks for the book!!!!

Anonymous said...

Yes thank you for the book ;)

Toni said...

Lol Thanks. :D
Are you related to Elder Nelson, above?

Anonymous said...

Yes, I agree, it's not only nuts, I believe it's a sin to give any money to the LDS Church and that we will be held accountable for supporting their evil if we do.

For if we were righteous and really noticed how the fatherless around us are not being taken care of by the Church, and if we had the Spirit and obeyed Christ's commandments when he told us to give our money 'directly' to the poor, then we wouldn't have fallen for false prophets in sheep skin.

I believe Christ will one day ask us why we followed LDS leaders commandments instead of his commandments and didn't notice or aid all the poor & fatherless around us suffering.

Anonymous said...

There was no Christ, there was a Jesus but he was not the Christ.

Anonymous said...

"And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord:
First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord. Therefore, see to it that ye trouble not yourselves concerning the affairs of my church in this place, saith the Lord." D&C 112:25-27

One further note, Joseph Smith is and was a Prophet of the Lord. Contrary to popular current myth, he was and is the Lord's servant. Denver Snuffer, from what I can determine, is the only real Prophet to arrive on the LDS scene since, and the church has cast him out along with many who recognize him as a Prophet.
Have we ripened in iniquity yet?
James Russell Uhl

chavez said...

The Lord doesn't raise up men to be prophets that are liars

chavez said...

The comment of the person claiming to be Russell m Nelson , is an evil twisted person who like some who claim to be the new prophets wouldn't know the truth if it was standing next to them

George Washington said...

Among those that have been cast out of the Lord's Gentile church for their blogs and teachings there is still considerable divergence.

What is needed in my conviction is less of our words, and a fuller concentration on the Word of the Lord revelations given to us as the Law we are to live by.

The D&C is full of instructions the church does not live. But since they have leaders that are guaranteed to never lead them astray, why should they worry? And why would the Lord give more revelation to His Gentile church since they have little interest in much of what He has given them.

Here is a link to the Word of the Lord to the Prophets Brigham, John and Wilford.

Has this gift been taken away from the earth after having been restored again through Jospeh Smith as the fullness of the times of the Gentiles came in?

There are many claims of Word of the Lord revelation today. That confuses the people, and must be exactly what the adversary wants. But that could mean the gift still is upon the earth and the adversary does not want people to find it.

I believe the Second Book of Commandments is in fact the continuation of the gift of oracles restored to the early Mormon prophets. If it is not, where is this gift today? Or has it been taken from the earth once again?

The 2BC has some of the most important revelations ever given to mankind. The times of the Gentiles are now fully over and the Lord is seeking the true blood of Israel where ever it is found to restore them again to all their former blessings.

The Gentiles and other races will receive great blessings from God if they support the Lord in this time of the re-gathering of Israel.

Anonymous said...

Amen chavez. Truer words were never spoken. To be a prophet one must keep the commandments, even the one about bearing false witness. That totally eliminates all the LDS leaders from Joseph Smith to today.

Anonymous said...


Go read the words of Christ, in 1st 4 books of the New Testament. Then it won't be so troubling to you, for you will see that the Church from it's inception, even Joseph Smith, abandoned Christ and his teachings in order to get gain and glory for themselves and teach the commandments of men, which appeal to men.

Anonymous said...

Amen. You are a wise soul who can see.

Unknown said...

JRU, you are spot on . . . I think we are pretty dang close to being ripened for destruction. I do not relish the pain and anguish, but a cleansing must happen according to the word of the Lord.

Unknown said...

(That was Toni B. I forgot I was signed in to one of my accounts.)

The Knowing said...

The notorious Devil's Deciple Margo Elders of Cuba Missouri, formerly of Lebanon Missouri, who is the sewer rat of class! Yes you Margo. Unfortunately, Cuba knows you and Mike very well and you are a classless, soulless hypocrite who is the furthest thing from this masked facade you like to portray amongst the poor Mormon family you're linked to. You intentionally and maliciously broke up and severed a father from all of his children, a grandfather from all of his grandchildren, an elderly mother who is 90 years old from her son, along with a brother from his sister for a period of almost a decade. Why? All in the name of marrying a doctor for his money and greed! Hey, how many marriages are you on now Christian girl? What is this victim #3 or 4? Trust me doll, your reputation precedes you well. You haven't fooled the majority as they see beyond the mask. Your dark soul radiates through to your homely, nasty, exterior! You are the furthest thing from a Christian and God have mercy on you when you stand before him on judgment day. That is if you even get that chance. You can't run from God or the truth!!! You are the epitome of trash and evilness and you both will die old and alone as you should. You are sick and twisted and your true ways are known!!!! What's funny is it's also well known karma is knocking! Your husband is unhappy with you and all of his children have gone on to live full, successful and happy lives in harmony! Look out Mormons, stay clear of this witch!!!!