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Monday, October 5, 2015

336: "I TESTIFY TO YOU THAT I KNOW"

Much has already been said from the bloggernacle regarding General Conference. So, I won't mention the Pondergate scandal, the Utah-centric eliteness of the newly called Lord's servants, the man-worshipping in the prayers and the talks, the emphasis on keeping the Sabbath Day holy but advertising their for-profit companies on the day of rest. However, I did want to mention one thing: President Eyring's talk in the Sunday Morning session. I am grateful for his honesty and clarity about how the Lord guides and directs His Church. He testified to us that he knows, that it is through the Holy Ghost (and not personally by the Lord himself) that the
Church is guided and directed.

Even though Eyring makes strong claims that this is the Lord's Church and they are the Lord's Servants, like

        "My Dear Brother and Sisters, I am grateful to be with you on this Sabbath Day in this General Conference of the Lord’s Church."

         "We can for instance be warned by the Spirit to resist the temptation to do evil. For that reason alone it is easy to see why the Lord’s servants have tried to increase our desire to worship God in our Sacrament Meetings."

...Eyring states that  the Lord  does not direct His Church through His personal ministering to them in the flesh but through  revelation that comes from the promptings of the Holy Ghost. This is Elder Eyring's testimony:

          "I bear you my testimony, that God the Father lives, that the Resurrected Jesus Christ leads His Church. That President Thomas S Monson holds all the keys of the Priesthood and that revelation through the Holy Ghost guides and sustains the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I further testify to you that these wonderful men who were called and today who have been speaking to us as witnesses of the Lord Jesus Christ and as members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. I testify to you, that I know that the Spirit led President Monson to call them and that they are called of God. I so testify. And as you listen to them in their testimonies the Holy Spirit will confirm to you what I now say to you that they are called of God. I sustain them and love them, and know the Lord will love them and sustain them in their service and I do it in the name of Lord, Jesus Christ. Amen."

Let me reiterate President Eyring's exact words (that he read from the teleprompter:

  • Revelation through the Holy Ghost guides and sustains the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

  • I testify to you, that I know that the Spirit led President Monson to call them (the apostles).


Instead: I think most members are led to believe that the Lord Himself ministers to His servants to guide the Church (not just through the Holy Ghost). Also, I think most members believe that the new apostles were called by the Lord himself and appeared to them personally to be His "special witnesses of the Lord Jesus Christ. The truth is that President Monson was just being led by the Spirit to call them.

It is my opinion, based on the testimony of President Eyring, that the current Lord's servants have not seen the resurrected Christ in the flesh (unlike the prophet Joseph Smith and other true prophets in the scriptures.)  While the current living apostles were compared to Nephi and other prophets who actually have seen the Lord in the flesh, I don't think they feel it is important as long as they are directed by the Spirit.  President Eyring in his talk said the following:

"The Lord taught His apostle Thomas who wanted physical evidence of the Saviors resurrection by touching His wounds. He taught that revelation is safer. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, Because though has seen me, thou has believed, Blessed are they who have not seen, and yet who believed. The truths that mark the way back to God are verified by the Holy Ghost. We cannot go to the grove and see the Father and Son speak to the young Joseph Smith. No physical evidence nor any logical argument can establish that Elijah came as promised to confer the priesthood keys now held and exercised by a living prophet, Thomas S. Monson."


If someone outside their hierarchy claims to have seen the Lord and preaches repentance, expounds scripture and testifies of the reality of Jesus Christ because he has been personally ministered to and seen Him.. the Church hierarchy thinks they are false prophets.. In the mind of the Church Hierarchy, if they personally have not seen the Lord, there is no way anyone else could.

6 comments:

  1. "It is my opinion, based on the testimony of President Eyring, that the current Lord's servants have not seen the resurrected Christ in the flesh (unlike the prophet Joseph Smith and other true prophets in the scriptures.) While the current living apostles were compared to Nephi and other prophets who actually have seen the Lord in the flesh, I don't think they feel it is important as long as they are directed by the Spirit. [...]"

    Well, to be up front, you are not the only person who has that opinion. And, yet, somehow, I'm supposed to accept the Quorum of the Twelve and First Presidency as "special witnesses".

    Yes, I understand that modern scripture calls them to be special witnesses of the NAME of Christ, but I guess I'd like to at least think that the apostles that lead this church have more than just a witness of the Holy Ghost. I'd like to think they actually speak with the Lord directly so that He can guide the church.

    It is disappointing to have the opinion that I share with you, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I continue to enjoy your posts.

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  2. You have hit the nail on its head again. I so enjoy your comments and look forward to them and hope you will continue to post more often. I also want to thank you for the beautiful pictures you post regarding God's beautiful creation, both in the heavens and on the earth. May you continue to edify us. Blessings.

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  3. You have hit on the subtleties of Eyring's testimony, but there's two more points that you didn't mention, that I think equally important. When Eyring quoted the sacrament prayer, he called the promised "Spirit to be with us" in the prayer to be the Holy Ghost. There is a massive movement to transition from a live Christ, to the Holy Ghost, a campaign of empowering a flesh-governed institution. The other thing was a little more subtle was when Eyring stated that Alma taught us that we plant faith like a little seed. Alma must be besides himself, as he has stated clearly that the word is the little seed.

    I've said this time and time again to my family, the value of knowing the words of Christ is to authenticate a real servant of God. When you know the words of Christ, you are not caught up in the emotional snippets of feel-good scenarios. For most who are unfamiliar with the scriptures, all they will remember is how they felt, dismissing the slights of doctrine.

    Perhaps, this is what is meant by Lehi's dream, that many "felt" their way to the large and spacious building. Our current policy is "make'm feel good." I also think that the large and spacious building is not a building at all. Rather, it is the idea that an institution can offer salvation, the building equated to the institution.

    Blindness can only be removed by seeking the words of Christ, both the static words, and the dynamic revelatory words of instruction. If you noticed any of talks by a member of the 12, each had the agenda of dismissing your personal connection, in exchange for their personal connection. But what I found interesting was Elder Oaks' talk on the atonement. I thought he would be the worst of the bunch because of his recent Boise message. But he said none of it. I could be wrong, but his talk (of the apostles) was the most detached from "follow the brethren." I didn't hear him say it once. What's up there?

    Rob

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    Replies
    1. Thank you for adding this additional insight.

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  4. BR, thanks again for you another insightful post—perfectly and gently on point. Three observations:

    1. Our leaders are confining us to the Telestial Kingdom.
    “And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament. These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus. These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit. These are they who are thrust down to hell. These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work. THESE ARE THEY WHO RECEIVE NOT OF HIS FULNESS IN THE ETERNAL WORLD, BUT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT through the ministration of the terrestrial;” (D&C 76:81-86)

    By asserting the primacy of the Holy Ghost—that the Holy Ghost is the most important minister for our salvation, even more important and “safer” than the personal witness and ministration of the Lord Himself—the GAs of the LDS Church, especially the apostles, are consigning all who will heed their words to remain in the Telestial Kingdom, which kingdom we at present occupy (as the temple states).

    In order to enter the Terrestrial Kingdom, we must be ministered to by the Son. To enter the Celestial Kingdom, we must be ministered to by the Father. And we must receive these things in the flesh.

    2. The Holy Spirit is essential to us at all levels of spiritual development, from infancy to perfection. However, the leaders of the LDS Church urge us to remain spiritually adolescent.
    After giving the revelation of the three degrees of glory, the Spirit constrains Joseph and Sydney from revealing other things they had seen:

    “But great and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion; Which he commanded us we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not lawful for man to utter; Neither is man capable to make them known, for they are ONLY TO BE SEEN AND UNDERSTOOD BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him;” (D&C 76:116)

    The Holy Spirit is the necessary vehicle to discern any and all truth, from our ABCs to being able to stand in the presence of God and have the heavens and all truth opened to our view. This continuum is made possible only by the ministration of the Holy Spirit. However, LDS Church leaders have for generations emphasized the “still small voice” and spiritual impressions through the Holy Spirit as the only essential and reliable manifestations of the Holy Spirit. They downplay “seeing”, “hearing”, and “knowing” beyond these impressions as unreliable and sources of potential deception. They encourage us to continue to muddle along, looking through a glass darkly, emphasizing the importance of trusting our “feelings” first and foremost. They ask us to ignore the scriptural command to “seek the face of the Lord always”, to seek to know “all mysteries”, to seek the our “calling and election made sure”, and to seek the “power of the priesthood” that the ancients possessed. This is having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. This is Anti-Christ.

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  5. contd:

    3. By denying these things, they prove that they are neither true messengers, nor called of god, but they are themselves, by their fruits, false prophets who will damn all who heed them. Hear the word of the Lord:

    “But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.” Matthew 23:13

    “And they deny the power of God, the Holy One of Israel; and they say unto the people: Hearken unto us, and hear ye our precept; for behold there is no God today, for the Lord and the Redeemer hath done his work, and he hath given his power unto men; Behold, hearken ye unto my precept; if they shall say there is a miracle wrought by the hand of the Lord, believe it not; for this day he is not a God of miracles; he hath done his work.” (2 Nephi 28:5-6)

    “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?” (Ezekiel 34:2)

    “Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord. Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord…For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the Lord. Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the Lord…Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land. Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord. They say still unto them that despise me, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. For who hath stood in the counsel of the Lord, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it? Behold, a whirlwind of the Lord is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked. The anger of the Lord shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly. I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings. Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord. I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart; Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal. (Jeremiah 23:1-2;11-12;15-27)



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