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Friday, April 26, 2013

168: THE FEW HUMBLE: Elder Richard G Scott Part 2


PART 2

continued from Part I Notes taken from Elder Richard G Scott talk given on
May 17, 1992 Layton Northridge Stake Priesthood Meeting

Elder Scott then quotes D&C 123: 12-17 where it says that we must bring to light the hidden things of darkness (which the footnote says is secret combinations) and he emphasized that point saying that he did not have the time to go into that subject now, that it would take over two hours alone, but he said, "Brethren, I want you to go home and study D&C 123 diligently until you understand completely what is means and how it affects your life."

Then he drew an axis on the black board as shown here: 


He then asked, "If Up is a course toward God, then which way is the world headed?" Everyone agreed that it is on a sharp logarithimic curve downward. Then he asked, "Which way are most members of the Church headed?" One brother tried to say that maybe we are not making a lot of progress upward, but just wavering between God and Satan so it ends up being a wavy line straight forward. Elder Scott said he did  not believe that was the case with most members, maybe a few. He siad that there are a few humble followers of Christ who are ona course back to God and making a curve of progress as shown below, but that he believed that most members are so concerned with being part of the world and being acceptable to the world that they are on a course of downward drift liek the world but maybe not as drastic a downturn. He pointed out how we accept so much wickedness that we would not have accepted twenty years or so ago (through our exposure to TV, movies, and Music) and even many of the Saints are partaking of that wickedness, thinking that it is just part of being here).


He said that one of the MOST serious downward trends is that of mothers working outside the home contrary to the inspired counsel of President Benson. He said he know that there are some mothers who have to word as single mothers or because fathers cannot, due to health problems etc. and he understands how hard it is to make ends meet in this wicked society. He said he feels that most working mothers do so because couples have coveted worldly good so much that they either go into debt and have to send the mother to work to pay for things they want, or instead of curbing their desires or selling what they cannot pay for. they rationalize that the wife can just until the goods are paid for and they they see more and more things they want to buy. Then luxuries become necessities and we thing we can't get by without them, such as having two cars.

21 comments:

  1. I sense that those in leadership in the Church would not give a talk like this today because the Church itself has been in the business of building Babylon for many years. I believe it started almost at the beginning, but it has become blatant. Talks now focus on the safety of staying in the mainstream of the Church. If this is correct, how can the diagram above be correct? Are the "few humble followers of Christ" solidly entrenched in the mainstream? It is counter to reason. Of course the reasoning is that the members of the CofJC are the "few" and the rest of the world are the "others" but a careful reading of scripture, and listening to the Spirit will teach that this is not correct. It is disheartening that Elder Scott taught suce beautiful and correct doctrine 20+ years ago, and it is nowhere to be found now, at least in the mainstream.

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    1. Anonymous,
      I'm generally not critical of posts...in fact I'm very open minded. But, I have to assume you're the same "anonymous" who posted on post #167.

      You keep saying things like "I don't believe this content would be given today" or "I sense those in leadership in the Church would not give a talk like this today". I'm not out to criticize your posts, I agree with much that you say. HOWEVER, use caution in being so critical of leadership. FACT: I've sat in many lessons (several from the 12) where they continue to teach almost exactly what was illustrated in this post. I don't say that all teach that, but I know at least several teach it to this day...Elder Scott being one of them. I agree that many of our testimonies in sacrament meeting have drifted to the adoration of the church in place of Christ (simply not understanding the connection).

      I'm not saying anyone is perfect. I don't worship them, I know who I worship. BUT, we need to lay off the leader bashing that seems to be increasing. When I say bashing, I mean continually using these subtle references as if they had no intention of teaching of Christ...that's simply not true of most of them.

      I don't trust in the "arm of flesh", but I've watched many leaders teach of Christ, talk of Christ, and are firm that it isn't the church, but Christ who saves - the church being a delivery vehicle. I'm just trying to extend them a little bit of mercy when the fact is that many of them are doing the best they can...including Elder Scott who DOES continue to teach what he taught 20 years ago (maybe it's just falling on deaf ears).

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    2. R.,

      I am not the anonymous above to whom you were talking, but may I say that it is impossible to warn others about the evils being blatantly taught and done by all the leaders of the Church it seems, without seeming to put them in a bad light or seeming to criticize them.

      Ancient Prophets, or even Joseph Smith, didn't seem to worry about identifying and warn about evil men like Bennett, Korahor or King Noah. So if our leaders have become corrupted and apostate, then why shouldn't anyone reveal it as much as possible?

      Just because church leaders may say all the right things and give nice uplifting talks and smiles, doesn't mean they follow through and practice what they preach. It appears clearly to me that they don't and that they don't really believe in Christ or live his Gospel, no matter how much they may act and talk like they do.

      The proof is in their fruits, their actions, and it is very apparent to anyone watching, who knows the Gospel, that the leaders allow, support and encourage the vilest of evils today.

      I do not believe any of the leaders of the Church are doing the 'best they can', for I believe they all know they are doing evil and they seem to want to keep supporting evil, instead of standing for the right because they would lose their 'perks', and for that they will one day stand accountable.

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    3. I agree, Anon 2:35. Thanks for not being afraid to express an unpopular point of view. Seriously, how can a member go to City Creek and not see that our leaders have bought into Babylon, hook, line, and sinker? They are also cashing in on book sales, and have sold out to the government in order to reap tax benefits.

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  2. Anon 4/27 6:20 AM
    In truth there IS safety to be found in remaining in the mainstream of the church...until one is able to pass thru The Gate (2Nep 9:41) and enter into the straight and narrow path (2 Nephi 31:17-18) and move forward feasting upon the Words of Christ as delivered by the Holy Ghost until one arrives at the point where the Savior decides he/she can bear HIS presence (2 Nephi 32:6).
    Until we pass thru The Gate we remain, along with vast "numberless concourses of people" pressing forward that they might obtain the path which leads to the tree of life (1 Nephi 8:21), far from Christ and we will NEVER enter into Eternal Life (2 Nephi 31:18) for "there is none other way save it be by the gate" (2 Nephi 9:41).
    And what is The Gate? The gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost. And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life (2 Nephi 31:17-18).
    Eternal life is NOT found in following the herd and proclaiming "all is well in Zion, yea, Zion prospereth, all is well" (2 Nephi 28:21).
    The Gospel of Jesus Christ is simple. It is all laid out in plain words by Nephi. It requires effort and prayer to understand it however. There is a lot more to it than submitting to baptism by water and then coasting into the CK!
    JR

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    1. So true, so true. And thank you for using scripture to teach these principles.
      Anon 6:20

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  3. What I am seeing in our ward and among our LDS friends is a desire to remain unspotted from the 'world' in terms of social evils but an inability to see how the world affected *them* in terms of embracing babylon. It seems contradictory to me (and I'm very pro-life) for people to get upset about abortion and yet be willing to shop for the cheapest possible things at the stores that exploit people who can't afford to raise children and thus give in to the propaganda (and government support) about destroying their own unborn. But when I try to explain that to these people, their eyes glaze over. (deer in the headlights)--

    It's all right to exploit poor people (anywhere in the world), but homosexuality must be fought on all sides (I think chastity is important for everyone, and I don't believe any kind of marriage should be regulated by any kind of government)--

    It's all right to send Mormon (American) troops to perpetual wars, but if young women show up at church wearing less than modest clothing (modest clothing is hard to find, and not everyone can sew or can look good in the things they sew themselves)--

    then there is a feeling of horror.

    I believe in modesty and chastity, etc.--

    but I think this present LDS culture/society (the mainstream, based upon voting records and FB political responses)--

    is very imbalanced and skewed. As though people can exploit others and still progress towards a strong personal relationship with Jesus Christ!

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    1. Great comment! I see the same thing, every member that I know seems to condemn other's sins while usually doing just as serious one's themselves, if not worse, but they never see their own sins.

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  4. humble (or peaceable) followers of Christ (using the Book of Mormon term)--

    have to have at least a desire not to hurt others. As empowering as personal chastity/modesty are and as horrific as the act of abortion is--

    how can so many LDS not connect the dots with regards to constant wars and the destruction of the unborn--



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  5. I'm the same person as the two above--

    about the mainstream. I think that the definition is not clear or uniform. When I think of mainstream I think: kids go to EFY and BYU, everyone goes on a mission at the 'right' time, husband/father must be in a profession, everyone has the latest technology, and everyone believes that only neo-conservatives are good Mormons.

    Someone else might believe that the mainstream means just keeping a temple recommend and continuing to stay 'in' the church--

    What does it mean? I've been confused about it since I first heard President Hinckley say it. It's too vague for me.

    Well, when you have handicapped/special needs children they don't always serve missions, and they aren't always the 'easy' kind of handicapped that everyone at church loves.
    And sometimes husbands and fathers can't be professionals, and sometimes Mormons actually have leanings towards libertarianism--

    or might even be Democrats! LOL!

    What does 'mainstream' mean?

    As for the humble followers of Jesus Christ, I know quite a few LDS who are very 'faithful', but they aren't very 'nice'--as in . . . they are rather mean people.

    I know some very loving people who really struggle to do callings and be found acceptable by the professional types of Mormons.

    So, I sense that there might be some who believe that humble followers of Christ are those who show up at every meeting but drive right by the homeless people--

    and that there are others who believe that the humble followers of Christ go out of their way to help someone in need, even if it means that they miss a meeting.

    What are the definitions?

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  6. I agree with Elder Scott. I also see only a very rare 'true follower of Christ', while everyone else in the Church, even all leaders, seem to be doing or supporting the vilest of evils, while feeling so righteous.

    The Book of Mormon Prophets seemed to have called it right, when they said that the Holy Church of God will become totally corrupted, except for a rare few.

    It's almost impossible to find a righteous person today who really follows Christ, in or out of the church. Yet everyone still calls themselves a 'Christian'.

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  7. I believe this is an example of the today's definition of "mainstream" in the LDS church:

    Mormon church leaders say they welcome Boy Scouts proposal to lift gay ban for youth
    Published April 25, 2013
    Associated Press

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/25/mormon-church-leaders-say-welcome-boy-scouts-proposal-to-lift-gay-ban-for-youth/#ixzz2Rjr2Yl24

    Look to Jesus Christ for your moral compass, not to church leaders.
    JR

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  8. or, JR, 'be in the church, but not of the church'--

    LOL!


    *trying to lighten things up here*

    It's imperative to have the Holy Ghost for *our* guide, and it's imperative to keep the Book of Mormon worn out (literally)--with reading and pondering--

    I've been thinking about the idea of very few real Christians in the world--

    and I think it's, sadly, true--

    I am not sure it's always possible for us to say, because I feel strongly about not judging, too--

    but the fact is that a true Christian should be known by his/her fruits--

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    1. We shouldn't feel guilty about judging, for God has commanded to judge, to prove all things and persons, by people's fruit (what they say and do), but we must do it righteously (using the scriptures and the Spirit) as Joseph Smith corrected the scriptures to say.

      If we don't or won't make righteous judgments about people or principles or practices, according to the scriptures, then we will easily be deceived and led astray and not even know it.

      Joseph Smith taught that if we have charity we will use righteous judgment and we won't be deceived.

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  9. sometimes I wonder, and I might get rotten tomatoes thrown at me here . . .

    if the true Christians don't even know Jesus Christ yet--

    it seems to me that there are pockets of gems in parts of the world that have been sorely tried by the Babylonian machinations of the 'developed world'--

    and it seems that there may be a lot of hidden Christians in those pockets--

    just an odd thought--

    when they see Him, they will KNOW Him--

    *why do I feel like crying?*

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  10. Well, I'm afraid that as soon as I think that I am becoming humble enough to be on the top side of the graph as a very rare, elect, true follower of Christ that my pride in doing so will flip me over to the the bottom side of the graph.

    We cannot always see into someone else's heart, both Joseph Smith and Pres. Hinckley, for example, have been deceived by conspiring men at various times.

    Perhaps someone who is truly a humble follower of Christ will not actually think that he is better than anyone else, but be acutely aware of his own shortcomings while also loving everyone else with true Christlike charity, not beleiving that he is better or more spiritual than anyone else.

    MarkinPNW

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    1. Markin,

      I agree that if we are humble, though we may know God is pleased with our progress and righteousness, we will still continually be aware of our minor weaknesses and sins, and we will realize how easy it is to fall or be deceived by falsehoods and false prophets, etc.

      For even many Prophets and those who have seen Christ can and have fallen throughout church history and the scriptures, so no one is past the point of falling.

      Joseph Smith indeed was apparently easily deceived by many evil people, so it seems he was still in the process of acquiring true Charity himself and learning how to discern devils from saints, as we all are.

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  11. MarkinPNW,

    well said--

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  12. MarkinPNW/Anon 9:57: My reading of Ether 12:27, my own experiences, and my view of others (such as Pres. Faust who cried when recalling how he neglected to fill his grandma's firebox as a child) lead me to believe that the closer we get to Christ the more glaring our own imperfections become. This is balanced by a knowledge of our forgiveness and our faith in Christ's ability to forgive. But the result is constant humility to the dust.

    For what it is worth, I recall Elder Scott teaching about this in the MTC in late summer/early fall of 2004. I was surprised that he said that the church was headed towards the world.

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    1. I should clarify and say "members of the church". I don't make a distinction, but Elder Scott probably would, so to be fair...

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    2. Yes, It was good that Elder Scott acknowledged that the members are 'heading towards the world', but I would say that most all members are already just like the world, in fact, judging from my non-member relatives and friends, LDS are even more blind and deceived and go along with much more blatant evil then most other Christians of other faiths. The non-members I know shake their heads in disgust when they see what the LDS Church is supporting and allowing, that their church wouldn't.

      Thus I can't trust, believe in or respect Elder Scott, for I believe he has chosen to go along with some of the vilest of evils.

      And he seems to support the common LDS belief that Joseph Smith was an abusive adulterous husband to Emma by living polygamy and constantly lied about it to her and the Church. When Elder Scoot should know, and probably does know, that the facts are that Joseph constantly fought and warned 'against' polygamy his whole life and there is no proof he ever preached or practiced it. It seems Elder Scott would rather consider Joseph guilty of abuse, polygamy and lying even without proof than give him the benefit of a doubt and consider him innocent of polygamy as he said he was.

      And worse, like all other church leaders, he apparently supports adulterous whoredoms still today, not only past polygamy, but also allowing men to live present 'serial' polygamy, going from wife to wife by divorce and remarriage, being sealed to them all.

      Rampant abusive abandonment of spouses & family & divorce and remarriage (which Christ said is adultery) is completely allowed, supported, encouraged and even rewarded by most, if not all, church leaders, top to bottom today.

      The LDS Church seems to be leading out in support for the destruction of the family, not in protection of it like it should be.

      One wonders how high the percentage of divorce has to get before the Church will finally repent and follow Christ's teachings and stop allowing and supporting divorce & remarriage and the abandonment of spouse and children or the encouragement of serial polygamy. Though judging from it's past history since Joseph died, I don't believe it will ever follow Christ's true teachings and repent, but unfortunately only get worse and worse in it's present apostasy.

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